Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#101 Post by CNG »

Looking into this, Zavoli PAN type injectors can be drilled out. Calibration nozzles are dirt cheap, these Zavoli things sit on what must be either an extremely good homebrew effort, or a 'mass-produced for Volvo conversions' rail, this pic shows the prior LPG fit. I've tidied the rail since. This rail, over a new set of injectors, seems easier and cheaper to attempt re-drilling/jetting first.
04-Volvo-Zavoli-Rail.png
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03 Zavoli PAN.png
03 Zavoli PAN.png (192.52 KiB) Viewed 2766 times
02 Zavoli Calibration Nozzles PAN.png
02 Zavoli Calibration Nozzles PAN.png (115.11 KiB) Viewed 2766 times
Last edited by CNG on Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:50 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#102 Post by CNG »

Two sets of five calibration-nozzles; plus the five that sits on there now, means fifteen to play with. Shall try this today.

Injectors are a bit of mystery to me. These Zavoli PAN Type are best part of £50 a throw, whereas there's whole rails of four priced for less, or if we're feeling flush there's purpose-made Bosch NG12 CNG injectors at £90 each, and/or Keihin at £110 each. Dai's not entirely happy with Zavoli PANs, and I'm sure he's right, but it's what I've got, so on they go.

I've got a heap of Bosch NG12 which are ex-Tesco. And 6 x Keihin Orange (thus a spare) too. Here's the NG12.
05 NGi2.png
05 NGi2.png (506.76 KiB) Viewed 2763 times
12-x--Bosch-NGI2.png
12-x--Bosch-NGI2.png (351.19 KiB) Viewed 2756 times
Bosch 2200 cc/min ( 210 lb/hr ) High Impedance Injectors ( Alcohol Compatible )


Came from their Fiat Iveco delivery van-fleet. Can't imagine Iveco / Bosch engineers are idiots, so would think these are best. Without simple barbs / mounts etc they look a pain to fit, and may have impedances not compatible with Nevo. I've got the Iveco Metatron 7Bar reducers too.

Bosch NG12.png
Bosch NG12.png (187.81 KiB) Viewed 2762 times
Last edited by CNG on Tue Aug 24, 2021 11:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#103 Post by CNG »

Iveco Rail..png
Iveco Rail..png (798.98 KiB) Viewed 2754 times
Thrown out by Tesco, I got those Metatron /Bosch bits for nothing. New, there must be £2200 in gold-plated ironmongery there. It'd be a shame not to use this. Right now the problem is: The gas-times are far too long. As for injectors themselves, Zavoli will have to do. So far all I've been able to do is rob the pressure-sensor from the reducer. And if the Zavoli don't work well, the Keihin Orange will be simpler.

I should hasten to add, Dai (classicswede) has been very good. This should be a join-the-dots install, only this appears to be a first. Had this been a standard 'girlie gas' job we'd be done long since. Dai would have told me what to fit, and what to expect.

Knowing this at the start, the bloke with this stuff down 'verbatim' is Dai's or LPGC's Russky/ Polish / Argentinian cousin? The Argies love CNG. Instead, to date, poor Dai has been plagued with near a dozen 5-10 minute phone-calls from me to keep this headed in the right direction. And we're not done yet. I carry on.


Ahem, the piccy.... I'm more often found in sandals - with socks. We do have standards.
Last edited by CNG on Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#104 Post by LPGC »

The only difference tank pressure could make is if it has an effect on reducer output pressure... And you can see reducer output pressure in Nevo readings.

The Pan injectors on the Volvo you pictured will be as fitted by the installer, the pan injectors have a wide bore which allows wide feed pipe on one end and wide gas exit pipe on the other end, they are designed to be daisy-chained as in your pic... all the installer had to do was cut pipe to appropriate lengths to daisy chain them.

The Pan injectors are comparatively slow (compared to many modern injectors). Sometimes when injectors are slow to open it means you have to increase the multiplier at low pinj's to compensate for the time it takes the injectors to open, it can also mean you might have to run the injectors with wider nozzles or feed them with gas at higher pressure than with quicker injectors so that they can feed the engine with enough gas at high engine loads. If you have slow injectors, and nozzles that are too small, or if you run on a fuel that requires a higher flow (volume not mass) to get the correct mixture compared to a different fuel (such as LPG) then you might need bigger nozzles and/or higher pressure than for the different fuel. The need for high multipliers is generally a sign of less than ideal injectors and pressure combination on a gas vapour injection system, as is too 'steep' a map shape.
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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#105 Post by CNG »

Thanks Simon. It's running at 2.0Bar, whereas I believer LPG would be at 1.2ish. Nevo alerts to run 2.0Bar as soon as there's a cahnge to the fuel type in its menu.

Nonetheless, seems 2.0bar is not enough, Nevo fault log shows low-pressure alerts. It's sometimes possible to see the drop 'on-screen' via Nevo. I didn't press Dai on why he wasn't keen on Zavoli's offerings. I'm aware of taking-up too much of his time, but from what you say, perhaps I should have done. I didn't get a chance to do much to it today, Dai couldn't guarantee my set of Keihin Orange would be much better, but it sounds like they won't be worse?

You're right teh Zavoli PAN are daisy-chained in. It's not too clear in the piccy, but I've rather fallen in love with the bracket they all sit on. I'm set to pull the injector 'plumbing' apart anyway, may as well throw in 5 x Keihin, they just won't look as tidy as the now cleaned-up bracket-mount Zavoli install.
KEIHIN LPG CNG Injectors Comparision Chart.png
KEIHIN LPG CNG Injectors Comparision Chart.png (44.5 KiB) Viewed 2711 times
Fuel Flow range.png
Fuel Flow range.png (233.46 KiB) Viewed 2708 times

If I read it right, Keihin Orange will deliver 24-38HP [25-35kW]. We will assume those to be LPG figures, and this Volvo is no road-burner. It does 140HP[104kW] from a five-pot, on petrol, thus knocking 15-20% off from the LPG power figures for methane, and we're still not quite needing Keihin Yellow. What I've got, Keihin Orange 'should' work.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#106 Post by CNG »

I'm seeing weak running and long gas times. Had a look-see today at the nozzles to the current Zavoli PAN injectors. A legacy from the prior LPG fitment I found nozzles drilled at 2.4mm. Having looked at Zavoli's tech sheet this was un-expected. According to Zavoli - for the output of this engine - they should have an LPG nozzle at 2.2mm. 2.4mm would be required for CNG. Zavoli have it that the next size up is 2.6mm, thus I ran a 2.6mm drill thu' the old nozzles. Gas injection times were too long, it's hoped this improves things.

Whilst I was on, I inspected for crud in the injector-body, and to be honest all five were pretty clean. The valve seats had large indentations thus I suspect they're very worn and could do with new seats or complete replacement. Nothing in there to clean. Cotton-buds on the seats didn't find much. If what I saw was any indication, injector-cleaner - for these anyway - is a waste of time and money. Better would be seats in decent condition.
Zavoli-Injector-Pan_N-Repair-Kit.jpg
Zavoli-Injector-Pan_N-Repair-Kit.jpg (4.6 KiB) Viewed 2645 times
I feel a Zavoli PAN rebuild kit is due. Only, I've now had two pros cast doubt over these Zavoli PAN. Hence a £50 rebuild might be good money after bad. And they are v.noisy. Rather than run before we walk, I'll see it make-do for now. Reckon the set of Keihin Orange winking at me will play their part next. In two rails of three, I bought a used set of six. Clumped together, I don't reckon the feed-tubes will reach. Taking the manifold off, yet again, for longer tubes is just too much for today. Keihin Orange will have to wait... 'sides - I'm hoping that 2.6mm drill works a modicum of magic.

I'm struggling with the Nevo 'booky'. Dear christ, I'm sure these systems are broadly the same, thus if you've worked on one or two, you've strong indications of what they are intending to say, and thus know what to look for. If like me, you're a newby, the KME manual is plain gobbledygook. Polish translated to English, and badly is no help. It's barely better than the 'Prince of confusion and contradiction', AEB's Italian to English diarrhoea. This verbage assumes prior knowledge and experience, which is fair enough - but no good for the likes of me. I've taken to reading manuals from other suppliers to give me a hint. You'd think Youtube would be good here, nope.... Youtube vids divide into vacuous manufacturer promotions or... babble away in Polish, Ruskinese & Czech.
Oh FFS.


A word with Dai I think.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#107 Post by CNG »

Well I'm completely confused by the Nevo manual. It refers to blue points on a line, plotting red points but there's two sets to these. Here's the Nevo graph after the first auto-config set-up.

The graph has numerous plots, and whilst I think I'm getting there, I'm not really. Used to think I was a fairly bright bloke, but without prior knowledge of this stuff I'm strugglin'...
First AutocalibrationJPG.gif
First AutocalibrationJPG.gif (219.89 KiB) Viewed 2591 times
Piccy shows engine at idle.

I’m very aware I’m going to sound dim, but i have to ask….

1. What is the Blue plot - points 1.5>1.97> 2.11 etc?
2. What does the straight red line tell us?
3) I think the second blue plot 7.99 > 9.07 is petrol?
4) The Orange [square] are gas points, (marked in green rectangle) correct?
5) I can only guess why Orange [circles] (marked in red rectangle) collect on the zero line. Xmas decs for all I know?
6) The cross-hairs move which points, and where to?
7) I don't understand Tilt, and can't get a proper explanation - but, get the idea at 68%, that's bad?

Am I being dim here? I feel I am, I've now read the Nevo manual four times, and then gone in for more. I'm left with some idea, but the language-use leaves me perplexed. With 6-7 plots in that graph when I was expecting gas vs petrol. I suspect even in Polish this would be a poor manual, once translated to English, I'm lost.

I'm sure if you already knwo what to expect, this works. As I whinge, my favourite reads as a reference to 'P1 & P2' after setting 'those and that'. Which'd be fine if 'those and that' were kept in context, and P1/P2 was defined. We'd have a clue.

A quick phone call with Dai I think.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#108 Post by LPGC »

1. Shows you the multiplier (ginj = pinj * multiplier)
2. Best ignored lol.
3. Plots ginj versus pinj, it shows the same info as (1) but in absolute terms rather than in multiplier terms.
4. They show the line that the absolute plot ought to take (based on pinj and ginj plotted points in the map screen). The map screen is more useful for seeing if running on gas pinj = running on petrol pinj for the same engine load conditions. But you need to adjust the multiplier in this model screen to make any changes and you make changes on the absolute plot rather than on the multiplier plot.
5. Look in the map screen and there'll be points plotted at all the same positions.
6. The cross hairs point to manifold vacuum versus pinj
7. Tilt compares multiplier at low loads (say 2.5ms) versus multiplier at high loads (say 12ms) and takes into account 'offset' (read move, which is approximately gas injector delay). Tilt can give insight into whether injector flow rate (nozzle size) and pressure combination are correct.

What have you set in basic settings? E.g. sequential / semi-sequential? What injectors did you select?

Nevo can be a pita setting up from scratch, even if you disable some autocal options they'd still run and mess up manual config... some sort of bug at least in earlier versions of firmware. I never setup Nevo without first uploading an old calibration file which has flags set to say autocal has already been converted - this prevents Nevo changing your manual map when you try to manually calibrate it. I sent Dai one of my existing maps.

Post a pic of your map screen? But we won't be able to do anything much regards manual changes until it's completed it's autocal thing or you've uploaded an old map and used that as the start point rather than a 'blank' ECU.

P1 and P2 are not shown in your screenshot. Nevo allows idle to be seen as a special condition with it's own mini-map, the mini-map only allows setting 2 multiplier points (the P1 and P2) and when in idle mode it doesn't do as much compensation for pressure and temperature. I seldom enable 'idle model calibration' but autocal might enable it and if does it will set P1 and P2 automatically. For good manual calibration it is better not to use 'idle model calibration'.
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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#109 Post by CNG »

Thanks Simon. It's becoming clearer. We started out running a core file from Dai. I think he got it frm you. We tweaked what I think was your file (it was a turbo car, LPG etc).
Does file name 'NB05OZA Volvo XC70T5 MJEX1212 HanaAplusrails silver 76727odo 62L 36quid TMS30 68X27' sound familair? [Name in file-name redacted].
Changed injectors to Zavoli. Dai worked with my boy for a while to make it run, and this failed. Dai had it that the nozzles were too small. We did an auto-configure, which was better but got low pressure alerts.

The Zavoli PAN nozzles have since been up-grunted from 2.4 to 2.6mm. Pressure as I said 2.0Bar. What you see should be 'your file' with auto set-up, but if auto-set-up knackers your settings, then who knows. I'd pester long-suffering Dai.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#110 Post by LPGC »

Yes that's the file. It was never going to be suitable for your car but it has the autocal completed flags set so is a better than standard starting point.
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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#111 Post by CNG »

Thanks for the confirmation. This car was sourced because of its factory-fit status. I ran on LPG for 1200 miles, thus assumed all was OK.
I know, I know, 1200 miles or not, I should have checked things more thoroughly.

White-block Volvo lumps are known for galactic miles, or with a little work, mad power outputs. Somehow with this one, I found a bad'un. Turns out the engine itself is a bit of a dog. It would not surprise me if the valve-damage is rooted in the shoddy and dirty LPG work found on the thing in the first...

Not sure which way to go now. Cold compression test reveals:

Pot 2: (180psi DRY - 220psi WET) Dodgy rings/bore?
Pot 5: (70psi DRY 80psi WET) Burnt valves?
All other pots (230-240psi DRY).
Didn't bother with HOT, I know enough.

Do I plug on with the conversion until it goes bang/blows-out all seals/burns more oil than is viable, or swap-in a decent lump now? I've little to lose, may just as well carry on... project put on hold for a few weeks, b*gger.

If I don't come back, avenge my death.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#112 Post by LPGC »

The low compression on pot 5 due to valve sealing might see it misfire at idle on LPG anyway...
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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#113 Post by CNG »

I'm amazed how smoothly this thing runs? I mean, I won't pretend it's perfect, and knowing its condition there is a clear audible note, but not so much that you'd otherwise notice. But perhaps that's inexperience - I'm used to 4 Cyl lumps, where one-pot-down, shows 'loud and proud'. This thing is still fairly peppy.
The low compression on pot 5 due to valve sealing might see it misfire at idle on LPG anyway...
Ah, I hadn't thought of that. It's b*ggered anyway, and I suppose gas could well be less tolerant to 70-80 psi than petrol, and more likely to 'cook' what's left. The way I see it; with not much to lose, I'll give it a go just the same.

I've got a replacement lump laying about. Until that goes in, I'm so close to completion, I may as well carry on this conversion. I'll super-glue a upright sixpence to the cam-cover, then run it... until it doesn't.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#114 Post by CNG »

OK, a quick update. Can't be bothered to put in a new lump just yet. It runs.

I drilled-out the Zavoli PAN to 2.6mm and that's helped a heap. I had serious doubts my Tomasetto Reducer AT12 was giving enough gas. However my penchant for CNG does not make any of this easier. Unlike LPG, I can't simply stroll along to any of the umpteen LPG suppliers, Messrs Tinley / LPGShop etc, and see another vapuriser rock-up next courier drop. Oh no... oh woe.

Turns out my Tomasetto Reducer AT12 was the low-end model. Much like AEB documentation, Tomasetto like to contradict themselves with every turn of their spec sheets. Thus, I bought what now appears to be something with output on the edge of this engines requirement. This all depends on which Tomasetto spec. sheet we read. Not knowing this at purchase, I took Tomasetto spec sheets at face. Turns out I was reading one of their more optimistic sheets. I call this 'Italian optimistic'. Because of the shortages, this has caused heaps of grief. And lots of time, hassle and money. No one has stock of anything.... in short, and there's no polite way to put this, Tomasetto are lying c*nts.

My bill for various reducers sits at £280. If this was LPG it'd be £100 tops. Whereas with accurate Tomasetto documentation, I'd have bought the larger AT12 Super in the first. Wiser than me would have known this, and bought BIG straight-off. I learn the hard way. I should have asked first. I asked, after...

viewtopic.php?t=19075
Last edited by CNG on Wed Jul 27, 2022 11:42 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#115 Post by CNG »

I've done maybe 6000 miles since the install. Which is low for me. The engine burns quite a bit of oil, but hell. It runs 'as is'. It's a Volvo white-block. I suspect it'll run a lot longer. . I intend to run this into the ground. Like sweets to kids, they give 'white-blocks' away for £250-300 tops.

Up there with the great engine designs, when it goes bang, I'll shove another in there. I run these because they go forever.

I've struggled to get hold of Dai. I've not got my head around Nevo set-up as well as I should, hence I wound-up going to a local bloke. With no experience with anything other than AEB, he too struggled with Nevo. He's got it running well enough. CEL comes on at start-up. If reset, EML stays off for hours - until next start-up. Ho hum. Will get Dai to spruce it up.

I've had all sorts of woes with the AEB TAP Model AEB510N. Even to source one. I paid £90 odd from Tinley for mine. Turns out the pricey AEB program/software lead was fine, (AEB011n Interface KitTap) only its Italian made power supply with a supposed power-supply output of 12V was actually putting out 18-20V.
AEB011n Interface Kit Tap.png
AEB011n Interface Kit Tap.png (133.58 KiB) Viewed 188 times

AEB011n Interface Kit Tap


I thought I had software or wiring issues. It popped 3 x AEB510N before I thought to look to the supply adaptor. I am NOT happy. A Timing Advance Processor should cost £60-70 tops. Scarcity of these things, delays, and costs to import from obscure parts of the world, has my 'Timing Advance Processor bill' looking closer to £450. This includes the hard-to-get AEB firmware lead. At the moment I've a Stag 01 winging its way from Poland. And 2 x Chinese knock-off AEB510N coming to replace the one genuine AEB item and the two knock-offs I smoked.

I think I've got to the bottom of the Renault/Volvo link on TAPs. Stag TAPs appear to be the same. Volvo or Renault, each has the same number of teeth to their flywheels. Resistance/impedance is the same/similar.

Usually there's no cheaper way to run a car, at the moment it's certainly not looking that way. The now ridiculous bill for what should be easy to find parts - were this LPG and pre-COVID - has been brought about by a combination of my inexperience, and p*ss-poor AEB / Tomasetto info. Then again I won't be beat. I'm miffed, yet not that surprised.

I want to get the TAP working as it should. To date, because of that 12V power supply, we've not much to show for time and efforts on the TAP front. 3 x scrap AEB510N. I'm waiting to get even one working. When I have that, I'll make a trip to Dai for a final tweak.

Why am having 1 + 2 more TAPs sent on the way? three more? Six, Yes - six in the finish? Well I don't know really. More out of fright. I want to 'finally' see if my choice of the AEB article actaully works. I 'smoked' all that i had... and if these don't work, i need the Stag 01 as a back-up plan. If I could get this stuff on-a-whim by next-day courier, none of this would be necessary. But I can't. If I wait to try each route, the other closes off. This by dint of shortages, or vast 5-6 weeks delivery delays. Thus I'm ratheer forced. And...

My lad has just bought a 2003 V40. This too goes CNG. Hence another TAP is required. Another Nevo for the V40 has just arrived from Dai.

Why do I do this? Post COVID shortages, and the relative obscurity of this conversion are doubling, nay tripling the time and costs. This route is not straight forward and I knew that. The other way is not for me either. Best to leave the 'glamour' end of motoring to the fakers with monthly payments, for cars you know they can't afford. I will forever refuse to suffer the two larger costs of motoring, fuel and depreciation. I'm minded to wonder who needs a registration-plate to impress people who don't like them, anyway? This works for me.

In the greater scheme of things, costs are very low. I'm quietly smug. We've saved money over even an LPG conversion. Let be, had we been running damn-fool diesel/petrol. I'm back to high-mile motoring soon, and it doesn't get cheaper.


Stag 01 TAP.jpg
Stag 01 TAP.jpg (123.92 KiB) Viewed 176 times



TAP, and a vist to Dai next...

We carry on.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#116 Post by CNG »

Zavoli PAN CNG injector orifice Jet Sizing.png
Zavoli PAN CNG injector orifice Jet Sizing.png (100.81 KiB) Viewed 170 times
This might be useful to someone. Seems to be quite difficult to get suggested jet sizing charts for CNG from most injector manufacturers. All focus on LPG.

With Zavoli I was lucky. Drillings for Zavoli PAN Injector sizing on CNG. I used 2.6mm

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#117 Post by CNG »

Thus so far...


[The following, copy and pasted from the Necam thread] Here's a current summary:

Currently the car lacks grunt and is not economical.. it's factory-fit Necam wins - for now. If this was LPG, the job would be sorted long since.

This is not really a surprise.
I'm convinced the issues I see have nothing to do with the KME Nevo or the legacy of the Necam. The prior Necam factory-fit has made things easy in many ways. The subsequent LPG lash-in less so. I'm using the factory-fit gauge, and the factory reducer/tank mount etc etc. The job looks very 'factory'. The whole conversion by its very nature is obscure, this makes it awkward. Yet, not truly obscure - just obscure here.

AEB's tech-sheets allude to such things - it's been done by Simon and Dai's Russian/Polish/Argentinian/Italian cousins to the point that we're tripping over Volvo white-blocks running CNG. Somewhere. Just not here. This means I can't find information too easily, or becuase of COVID, getting the frikin' parts! The bill for Nevo has the time and parts bill at mad levels. To date I'd be infintely better to have stayed with Necam. A combination of COVID / my inexperience /obscurity sits at the root of this, over Nevo per se.

i'm pretty sure a proper TAP, and Dai's eye over the now half-baked Nevo configuration will sort most of the problems. CNG wants heaps of advance. Stag TAP 01 arrived this week. Standby.

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Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#118 Post by LPGC »

Some gas ECU software such as Alex Optima Expert features a built in 'calculator' that works out supposed ideal nozzle size if you enter the engine's peak power, number of cylinders, whether it will be running on LPG or CNG and the gas pressure it will be run at. You don't need to connect the software to an LPG ECU for the calculator to work and the software is free for anyone to download. But even these 'calculators' hint that power per cylinder, fuel type and pressure are not the full story when it comes to selecting nozzle size.

Some injectors are expensive not because they're good but because they're a type that has been around a long time and they always were expensive. These days they might seldom be installed as part of a new conversion but they're very handy for people with existing installs who want (or only know how) to replace like with like.

At the bottom of the nozzle size chart for the Pan injectors you posted above (post #116) there's writing to the effect that the Pan type injectors need to be pulsing for between 5 and 6ms at idle. This is because the injectors are slow compared to most modern injectors. Slow can be a negative on a lot of modern engines... If the Volvo engine normally idles with pinj (petrol injector pulse duration) of 2.5ms or 3ms then for the gas ECU to derive a 5 or 6ms pulse for the gas injectors the multiplier (ginj/pinj) at idle will need to be around 200% when normally we might want/expect ginj at idle of 4ms and multiplier of around 130%. The Pan type might look factory on the Volvo engine and aesthetics should be a consideration but function should be first priority... and if the Pan type are old/second-hand we don't know at this point even if they're working as they should or if they're broken/work-out? There are other types of more modern injectors that could be fitted in much the same way as the Pan type, and there are yet other designs that could be fitted even neater (and be capable of higher flow - while for a given size/power engine we're more likely to need higher flow rates on a CNG conversion compared to an LPG conversion).

Going back to the point about Pan injectors 'needing' to be pulsed for between 5 and 6ms at idle and the resultant 200% multiplier at idle, the high multiplier at idle will indirectly cause the autocal on a lot of LPG ECU's not to work properly, they may report nozzles too small or not enough pressure type errors, they may initially make the rest of the map far too rich (if they assume a similarly high multiplier across the rest of the map will be needed), if they initially make the rest of the map so rich the engine may misfire under load before autocal reduces the multiplier for higher loads (and misfires will mess up the chances of autocal doing it's thing properly)... Not that autocal does a good job in any case but under better initial circumstances (with different injectors) it might do a better job and at least get you running.

Which cylinder misfires? If it will idle on CNG without misfiring you could maybe try running Nevo's 'gas injector check' utility (it's under the diagnostics tab). Not sure how the tap will effect things though.
Or you could swap the injector on the cylinder that misfires with another injector and see if the misfire follows the injector or remains on the same cylinder.
We have assumed that the misfire is due to poor compression on one cylinder but it may be worth checking the misfire isn't caused by a dodgy injector.
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CNG
Member
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:54 pm

Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#119 Post by CNG »

Now back on this, I've left this job 'as is' for 7-8 weeks. Broadly because I was up against the joint brick-walls of 3 x hard to get, b*ggered AEB TAPs and inexperience. The TAPs ruined as a result of the faulty power supply in the AEB Firmware kit, it took me a while to work out what had happened. It runs OKish.

You asked:

============
Have you monitored OBD live data when running on LPG and checked to make sure that...
It is running in closed loop mode (not running in open loop mode due to legacy Koltec bits)?
With decent fuel trims?
Fuel trims change correspondingly if you adjust LPG calibration (it isn't getting an emulated lambda voltage that makes it seem like fuelling is correct on LPG when actually fuelling could be anywhere but emulation would make the petrol ECU see correct fuelling - again this would be due to legacy Koltec bits)?

============
Tragic I know, but I run a Scanguage OBD permanently wired into the dash. I can watch it run closed-loop. It does. This set-up runs the petrol in emulation, I've made no attempt to get it to run when using the factory-fit Necam map or that side of gas running. The still installed factory CNG/gas switch when thrown simply cuts the engine. For our purposes I think I'm safe to think the Koltec/Necam side is void.

This car does not have the separate Necam ECU. Gas running is dealt with by the same Denso ECU as petrol running. The Necam/Koltec parts are limited to mecahnical only. This means I've no way to get to the ignition map for gas surely buried in the Denso ECU. With the dash switch on 'petrol' it runs as it would for petrol. I've struggled to get hold of Dai, thus I had a bloke who openly admits he has expereince limited to AEB ECUs sit passenger with his OBD gauge plugged-up. His efforts has it run fairly well. He could not get trims right at idle speeds. Hence on long runs the EML stays off, but next start-up, it's back on in minutes. This could well be to do with the limitations of the PAN injectors you speak of. I don't know. I'm not convinced the Nevo is linking to the OBD. Pin 7 & 15 are shown for Nevo wiring diag, yet Pin 7 is the only one present on the cars OBD port. Pin 7 thus wired-in. Nevo's software does not seem to indicate communication to Volvo's OBD. It's sluggish compared to Necam running. I assume it needs that TAP.

Fuel gauge:

I've had all sorts of games with AEB806 CNG gauges. AEB refuse to keep to one standard. They make these 12V, 0-5V, 90Ohm or whatever. Their tech. info ever contradicts. I've ruined too many of these hard to get gauges, this following their tech sheets that indicate 12V. This to find it was a 5V gauge all along. Particularly galling when I've paid top dollar to courier with wait times to import hard to get gauges. If there's a reason LPG gets such a bad rap, one of them is these idiots.

Think I said, instead i run the factory fuel gauge. It's a 5V 300bar Bosch pressure sensor (Bosch Pressure Sensor PSS-260) This migrated to the new pipery.

For the benefit of others, it's:

Bosch Pressure Sensor
PSS-260
Bosch 0261545030
Bosch 0261545040
Bosch 0261545055

Volvo want £300, it's £25 most anywhere else. Hence I've a physical AEB806 analogue gauge sitting on my reducer, with outputs broadly ignored kinda' running the Nevo display. I like to see a proper analogue 200bar gauge too. The fuel gauge 'proper' driven via the Bosch, remaining as factory.
Last edited by CNG on Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:45 am, edited 4 times in total.

CNG
Member
Posts: 293
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:54 pm

Re: Conversion of a Volvo V70 (P80) 1999

#120 Post by CNG »

I'm now looking at 3 x TAP. Two 'truant from school' Chinese AEB510 + 1 x Stag TAP 01. At £20 each I can't say no to hte Chinese TAP. And now I have the firmware kit such that it won't smoke them, these are my first port of call. If I can cure the sluggishness I'm happy.

Speaking to Dai, he was not keen on Zavoli PAN either. I might live to regret not taking his advice. As I said, I put a PAN rebuild kit to all five. new springs and valve-seats. I er, think, they run as well as PAN injectors can.

Misfires? The engine had been sat non-running when I last did a compression test. It burns quite a bit of oil. Nonetheless it doesn't sound half bad - still peppy on petrol. It's smooth at idle on both fuels. Stumbles a bit mid-range on both fuels but not badly. I'm going to give it another compression-test, maybe a valve has seated? It's condition is not helping matters, but hell... this is 'bangernomics', and it runs. If this carry-on b*ggers an already b*ggered lump, better I do it now. My logic? Burn valves now getting it right, over putting in any decent rebuilt lump and mess that up.

For now I'm going to shove a Chinese TAP on. Until I have the non-fried TAP issue sorted i see no point looking-up Dai. TAp goes on this weekend at latest. Not sure how a TAP will affect the Nevo set-up, last done without the TAP.


With so many varaibles, to be honest, I'm getting out of my depth. Pig to install 'right' hence I've avoided it; so happens I've an Innovate wideband gauge knocking about. Might just put that on. I'm a big fan of wideband gauges, helped a lot with my Land-rover series install. Thus this fool can 'see' what happens, and when. A LR series is no lambda vehicle, all I did was put a boss on the exhaust. Replacing the Volvo narrowband with a wideband and using the Innovate wideband gauge to emulate the narrowband is supposed to be possible, only my money says it adds another variable, hence I'm wary. And I'm wary of doing as my LR adding a WB probe independently. Not keen to beggar the exhaust.

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