Lpg issues

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Lpg08
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Lpg issues

#1 Post by Lpg08 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:50 am

Hi
I have a emer lpg system on my car with valtek 34 injectors.

The issue i have is while driving it will just cutout on gas start beeping and go to petrol.

If you turn thr car of and restart it willndrive again for a while until it does the same thing.

Today it would not run on gas at all so i plugged in the computer and got two errors in the diagnosis screen.

1st error is gas injector 1,2,3

2nd error is reducer valve

I had a spare reducer solenoid so i replaced it and still same issue reducer valve error comes uo straight away when you try go to gas.

I tried a few more solenoids until one worked and ran fine no errors.

Then i retried the old solenoind thinking they cant all be bad and even that started to work.

So im not sure whats going on. I shook the wire and checked for cuts thinking it maybe a short but nothing showed up.

During all this the injector error did not appear only the reducer solenoid error.

Thanks

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Re: Lpg issues

#2 Post by LPGC » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:40 pm

Seems that disturbing whatever was causing the real problem effected a fix, after disturbing the real problem the new components worked and the old components worked when you refitted them.

If that's true you might have disturbed the loom as it connects to the ECU or as it connects to 12v and earth (main battery connections or fuse).
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Re: Lpg issues

#3 Post by Lpg08 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:21 am

I did try shaking all the wires once i got it running and it didnt seem to cause any issues.

Not sure why it randomly gets the injector faults

Would it be caused by the reducer solenoid?

Jusr trying to figure out if the injectors are causing the issue or if in fact its the solenoid.

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Re: Lpg issues

#4 Post by Brian_H » Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:44 am

As Simon pointed out above, random issues can point to a bad connection to the battery, or a bad battery for that matter.

Check the fuse holder on the lead connected to the battery - pull the fuse out and check its not started going green where you can't see it straight away, check the fuse is tight in the holder etc. Check the pickup from the battery is clean and tight as well.

I've had issues with the Land Rover (which doesn't get used every day) when the battery is going a bit flat, where you can be driving along the motorway and it will suddenly fault with injector issues/control panel issues/other random issues being logged, these all disappeared when the battery was charged again (and the car had been running for around an hour at that point where it faulted, so you'd have expected the alternator to have charged it by then really).

Solenoid coil can go short circuit when hot, its more likely that than 3 injectors being faulty, but more likely its a simple electrical issue of some sort.

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Re: Lpg issues

#5 Post by Lpg08 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:34 am

Drove it to work today in the morning no issues 40min drive

On the way back in the afternoon the gas cutout again which makes me think it maybe a heat issue.

The reducer solenoid is of my other running car which never had an issue so cant be the problem.

When i got home i shock all the wires to ecu, injectors solenoids while it was running on gas with no issues.

I checked all the power and ground wires no loose connectors or corrosion.

Took the fuse out no corrosion.

Im starting to think if it may be the gas ecu faulting out as it gets got? Anyway to confirm this?

Thanks

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Re: Lpg issues

#6 Post by Lpg08 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:42 am

Im also thinking if i swap the injectors around and see if the error goes from injectors 123
To 456

Not sure what that woukd tell me as i dont think 3 injector coils going bad at once is likely

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Re: Lpg issues

#7 Post by Brian_H » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:34 pm

How good is the battery? What sort of voltage are you seeing from it? You might be able to see that in the software, not used EMER but some will show you a snapshot of the various readings when a fault occours, that might help to see if its something else.

Swapping injectors not a bad idea, but as you say likelyhood of 3 failures out of 6 is unlikely, a pair could possibly point to an ecu in some cases, but it seems this is more likely power related.

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Re: Lpg issues

#8 Post by LPGC » Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:59 pm

It is obviously extremely unlikely that 3 injectors and the reducer solenoid coil all fail at the same time, if you swapped positions and the fault moved to 456 you still wouldn't know exactly which injector had failed... though of course that wouldn't matter in this case because you'd be changing the full rail of 3 injectors anyway.

Have you changed the setting in 'sensors' screen for 'tank solenoid valve with dedicated wire'?

The 8 cylinder AEB/Emer ECU's have a separate electrical output for the reducer (engine bay) solenoid and the tank solenoid. It is very possible that the installer wired the output for the tank solenoid to the reducer solenoid and wired the output for the reducer solenoid to the tank solenoid - In which case a problem with a shorting tank solenoid would be flagged in the diagnostics screen as a problem with the reducer solenoid (and vice/versa) and it's possible that extra current draw from a shorting solenoid could could cause other errors to be flagged such as injectors 123.

I previously noted the pinout for AEB2568 ECU's, this might be of help viewtopic.php?f=32&t=15853&p=118047

Disconnect the ECU from the loom and checked for tarnished/corroded pins on the ECU (the main earth and main +12v pins especially), clean any that look tarnished/corroded.

Sometimes as these ECUs age they do detect phantom errors, the way around that is to simply uncheck the 'enable diagnosis' box in 'diagnosis' screen, but don't do that until you are entirely confident that error codes are phantom
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Re: Lpg issues

#9 Post by Lpg08 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:22 pm

Hi
I did check the ecu pins and they looked fine no water damage or corrosion. I may take the ecu apart make sure no moisture damage is present on the board.

I will check how the tank solonoids are wired tonight. It has twin tanks either side of the car so two solenoids. I did see a seperate fuse in the wiring that seems to be the power side to the tank solenoids. Everything looked fine there.

On second thought i think its wired fine because when i disconnect the reducer solenoid the gauge beeps and give me a reducer solenoid error. So it must be wired correctly.

This issues started a while back but i replaced the reducer solenoid and all was well for 1 month maybe doing it ones in that month. Now it cuts out daily even with a new solenoid which makes me think its the ecu.

If they are phantom errors and i turn of diagnosis will the car cutout during driving still? Or will it not effect it because it cant detect any errors anylonger?

Thanks

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Re: Lpg issues

#10 Post by Lpg08 » Thu Nov 05, 2020 9:48 am

Car drove fine all day today just as i was pulling into my street it stalled.

This time the code that came up was injector 1 and reducer solenoid.

I have cleared it and turned of diagnosis hopefully this will fix the issue as i think the errors are due to maybe an ecu issue?

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Re: Lpg issues

#11 Post by LPGC » Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:37 am

If you get a reducer solenoid error when you disconnect the reducer solenoid (as opposed to tank solenoids), then yes it will be wired according to the diagram and error codes will point to the correct solenoids.

Usually phantom errors are more likely to point to map and temperature sensors than solenoids.

If you disable diagnostics, whether or not the car will cut out when error codes would be logged in future depends on the type of error and whether or not it is really phantom...

Phantom errors have no underlying real problem. There are no negative consequences for ignoring a none-problem, the advantage is that the engine continues running normally on gas without switching back to petrol.

Example of a negative - In the case of front solenoid error, if we disable diagnostics but the front solenoid really does go open circuit (which means the front solenoid will close) the pressure drop at injectors may be far quicker than it would be if we had simply run out of gas with solenoids open, pressure may fall so quickly that the engine stalls before it has switched back to petrol, it wouldn't start switching back to petrol until pressure fell below (say) 0.6 bar. If diagnostics were enabled pressure would still fall quickly but the switchback to petrol would start to occur the moment that the error was noticed when there might be (say) 1.2 bar pressure. *Edit - This could mean that it would be more likely to stall with diagnostics disabled.

The set of errors you have seem to point to a voltage problem (which could be due to a bad connection or a component drawing too much current). In a scenario where such problems are severe enough that the ECU reports disconnected components (injectors / solenoids) it's likely that even if the ECU ignores errors there won't be enough voltage to e.g. open injectors.

Have you checked wiring under the ECU's multiplug cover where there are various wiring joints (earth wires joined together etc)?
Last edited by LPGC on Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lpg issues

#12 Post by Fox vehicles » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:11 pm

I always turn off the diagnostics when giving a vehicle back to the customer, as Simon has said if there is a broken part, a real error, then it won’t run on gas, phantom errors are just annoying and don't really achieve anything. The ecu is checking the resistance of all the electrical components to decide if there is a fault with any of them, a bit of a bad earth somewhere on the car may be enough to upset the resistance reading. So the diagnostics is only turned on when I have the vehicle in the shop for installation or service work and whilst test driving then it is turned off until I see the vehicle again. Try turning it off and see what happens :)
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Lpg08
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Re: Lpg issues

#13 Post by Lpg08 » Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:09 am

So after turning of diagnostics it still stalled. Worse than ever without warning.

I opened up the ecu and nothing stands out.

I am stumped

It got so bad that it wouldnt even go to gas. Your rev it up and there was no click from reducer or tank solenoids just stalled.

I plugged the laptop in turned on diagnostics again and got injector 1 and reducer coil error again

So i thought lets try swap plugs on injector 1 and 2 and see if the error shift to injector 2 or stays with one.

As soon as i unplug and resart the car it runs fine......

Prior to that it wpuldnt even run. Put wires back and still runs with no errors.

I am stumped and its getting difficult to diagnose as when you touch sokething it seems to start working.

But then you shake all the wiring dosnt do anything.

Maybe i should check resistance of the injector coils cold ajd then after heating with a heat gun?

What should the resistance be?
For a valtek type 34 metal bodied injector

Hope someonencan see what im missing because im running low on ideas


Thanks

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Re: Lpg issues

#14 Post by LPGC » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:10 am

Valtek34 injectors have 2.5Ohm coils. But measure all of them, they can't all be bad, see if one or two stand out from the others with an unusual reading.

The ECU can pulse each injector separately but part of the electronics that drive an individual injector/channel are shared with another injector... It is possible for a fault with one injector coil to also create an error code for another injector coil, but in that case we wouldn't expect to see error codes for 3 injectors. The thing that is most common between 3 injectors on one cylinder bank is literally the common wire to them... The things that are most common to both injectors and solenoids are the ECU's earth and connection to battery +12v.

The ECU chassis is earthed to the circuit board, if the main earth wire isn't making a good connection to vehicle/battery earth there can be a situation where if the ECU chassis is making a connection to vehicle earth the system will work OK because it's still getting earth through the chassis, or if the ECU chassis isn't connected to vehicle earth these kinds of faults appear. May be worth intentionally making a good connection between ECU chassis and earth, even if just as a test (if it then works recheck/remake wired earth connections).

Clarify 'As soon as i unplug and resart the car it runs fine......' - Unplug what?
When wouldn't it run?

When you changed the reducer solenoid coil - You did use a reducer solenoid coil, not an injector solenoid coil? Some injector coils will fit on some gas solenoid posts but injector coils are usually around 3Ohms while solenoid coils are usually around 15Ohms.

What ampage fuse do you have fitted?

What car is this?
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Re: Lpg issues

#15 Post by Lpg08 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:13 pm

So did some daignosing on the weekend.

Everytime the car cuts out i noriced the gas gauge turns of and the laptop wont connect to the ecu.

So as mentioned earlier it does seem to be an power or ground issue. As soon as the lpg cut out what i did was check voltage before and after the fuse (15amp) for the main power cable to ecu and there was power going to that main line whilst the gauge was off.

So i removed the gas ecu from its position and the lpg gauge turns on which indicates its a loose connection at the ecu.

After this i start the car on gas and tug at all wires going into the ecu and try push them all in.

Unfortunately incould not get it to replicate the issue so i ak convinced its a power to ecu issue but all pins and wires look to be in the correct spots and not corrosion.

After tgis the car has been running fine, maybe the pin has seated. It would be good if i could find the actual culprit but everything looks in place.

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Re: Lpg issues

#16 Post by Lpg08 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:15 pm

Also another question

How hot is the lpg solenoid converter supposed to get

After 10mins or so its so hot you cant touch it. My infrared thermometer says its 100degrees celcius which i believe as its so hot.

But it did not get any fault codes today and did not stall.

Also the resistance for the solenoid while hot is 18ohms
The injectors measiures 2.6ohm

So they all check out.

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Re: Lpg issues

#17 Post by Brian_H » Mon Nov 09, 2020 1:29 pm

Shouldn't get that hot, that would indicate a short circuit to me in the coil itself. Might be an intermittent fault, I'd swap the coil for one of the others you had at this point and see if it still gets hot (it will get warm by the nature of what it is and where it is, but that strikes as being too hot by some way, or your thermometer isn't reading correctly). The vapouriser itself should get hot as its got the coolant flowing through it, but most of that shouldn't be conducted to the solenoid coil all the same.

Does the fuse holder also get hot? I've known problems with the holders as mentioned above where the connector and blade fuse doesn't contact as well as it should do. A gentle squeeze with pliers is usually enough to fix that.

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Re: Lpg issues

#18 Post by Lpg08 » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:13 am

Ive checked 9ther gas cars and they all get that hot so guess thats normal.

The issue has come back.

Reducer solenoid issue which causes the gauge to beep

The other issue it has it will sometimes just go to petrol and the green gas light will keep flashing and wont change over to gas again no beeping


So what i notived when this happens is the rom singal is all wrong its will read about 850rpm on laptop at 2000rpm on the cluster

Even aroundn 5000rpm it will read 900 but but when it goes to idle it seems accuarate

I tried shaking the rpm brown wire (covered in black heat shrink) at the coil and the ecu to no avail. I also cut the rom signal wire and teied to run rpm only but wont work on my car rpm will stay stuck at 89rpm

If you turn of the car and turn it on again it will run until it randombly acts up again.

I have check powr and ground issues so many times to no avail

Fuse holder dosbt get hot even by passed it but still no good.

Not sure what to do now

Maybe try another ecu?

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Re: Lpg issues

#19 Post by Brian_H » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:58 am

Can you take some screenshots of the software it sounds like your rpm detection may not be setup correctly

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Re: Lpg issues

#20 Post by Lpg08 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:36 am

I have 2 of the same cars and the settings match.

And its always run fine before so that cant be the problem.

I did try the ecu of my other car and so far its fine no issues but i drive more tommorow and see.

Where can i purchase a aeb2568d from?

Lpg shop ive purchased things from before but there king ecu seems out of stock.

Anyone else?

The ecu in the car is emer but i assume any aeb2568d will work?
https://www.agsiedlik.pl/en/electronics ... i2945.html

Anyone purchase from these guys before? Are they legit?

Im from australia so its very hard to find these parts here and if you do its 3 -4 times the price from a lpg shop

Thanks

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