General mapping tips?

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Budgetbond
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Re: General mapping tips?

#41 Post by Budgetbond » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:30 pm

No I think the shape of it's different due to the restricted engine bay I think they just did away with the 2 cat thing, I think the fix was to just put a manifold on the same as my car without a cat incorporated init as far as I know, a bit of a balls up I think, but those v same cars if they survived are worth twice the price of mine now.

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Re: General mapping tips?

#42 Post by LPGC » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:54 pm

Been a while since I converted an MR2 to LPG hehe.
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Re: General mapping tips?

#43 Post by Budgetbond » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:14 am

Lol yeah you must have quite a repertoire Simon dyou think you could get one to run off a can of lighter fuel, how many miles dyou think you'd get out of an aerosol?!!

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Re: General mapping tips?

#44 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:59 pm

Gilbertd wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:37 pm

I quite liked the look of the Smart car, or at least the concept behind it, then I drove one.....
I'll take a guess it was the woeful ride quality that disappointed...
Mine rode so badly that the suspension mods I did didn't detract as there was no ride quality to begin with. They improved the handling enormously though - getting rid of that 'double bite' required on corner entry made a world of difference.

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Re: General mapping tips?

#45 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:11 pm

Budgetbond wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:06 pm
Yeah thanks I'm hoping that emissions wise is another big advantage of lpg too over petrol.
A potential advantage in city use re particulates - that petrol engines now also emit when they employ direct injection.
Kinda makes me laugh, the resistance to having to accommodate an LPG tank and the limited refuelling availability (and longer fill times). Now it's a headlong rush to design cars around huge battery packs to use with limited re-charging facilities and recharge times that make filling an LPG tank appear F1 pit stop fast.
Budgetbond wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:06 pm
And lol when the smart cars came out I was actually quite smitten and thought that's gotta be the way of the future, they even did a little coupe version too didn't they, but they don't seem to have endured and cars seem to be bigger nowadays, it's funny how things change and cars really seem to encapsulate that,
Mercedes never developed the brand (which the Roadsters really boosted) and early adopters later veered toward BMW's mini - which BMW marketed brilliantly.
The rise of the SUV - particularly the smaller 'crossovers' gained popularity IMO due to their slightly elevated seating. Something the fortwo had from the beginning. I doubt I'd go back to 'sitting on the floor' as conventional cars now feel to me.
Budgetbond wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:06 pm
One thing I don't know about is and have seen are Timing Advance Processors (I think Stag do one eg.) are they for use on EFI systems to advance the timing to extract more power or use on earlier systems?
Ditto.

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Re: General mapping tips?

#46 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:15 pm

LPGC wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:26 pm

We could quickly get into a complicated area talking about exhaust systems and how pulses from the engine/openings/restrictions etc can affect things.
Indeed!
And if you are aware that my user name is from the American term for the engine that best deploys it - then you'll know the fascination it has over me!

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Re: General mapping tips?

#47 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:32 pm

It was the ride quality, the size making it feel ridiculously claustrophobic, sitting what felt like 6 inches away from the wheel nuts on a passing artic and the weird semi auto gearbox. I also had a Roadster that was bought with the standard failing of a blown turbo that had killed the middle cylinder. With the 'intelligent' fly by wire throttle and the semi auto gearbox, you couldn't even get it to move under it's own steam. It knew it wasn't running on all cylinders so the ECU wouldn't allow it to rev. So you couldn't rev the goolies off it and slip the clutch like you can on a proper car. Fitting the engine from a Yamaha R1 would make one fun through......

One of the reasons Shell have given for removing LPG pumps from their filling stations is that customers are asking for more electric charging points and Hydrogen filling stations. Now I've not seen anything running on Hydrogen except a couple of fleet vehicles in London where the owners have their own refuelling site and you couldn't put an electric recharge point on the filling station islands where the current LPG pumps are. It's bad enough waiting for someone who is clogging up the pump while they do their weekly shopping, but to have an electric car sitting there for hours on end would be ridiculous. Those filling stations that do have electric charge points have put them away from the normal fuel filling areas. But, I was in Kent last weekend and stopped at motorway services. Seeing the amount of dead leaves and rubbish all around the area of the electric charge points, they hadn't been used in days, if not weeks, and, while in France the weekend before, all the Autoroute service areas have charge points but I didn't see one in use. In fact, I saw one that had been closed down! Other than the odd Tesla owner I don't think electric car owners do long journeys. My sister expected me to disown her when she bought one recently but she is representative of the average electric car owner. She uses her car to go to work, all of 3 miles each way and to go shopping, 5 miles each way maximum. She was killing batteries on a conventional car in a year but her husband has a proper car they can use for long journeys, so electric is ideal for her.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


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Re: General mapping tips?

#48 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:45 pm

Gilbertd wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:32 pm
It was the ride quality, the size making it feel ridiculously claustrophobic, sitting what felt like 6 inches away from the wheel nuts on a passing artic and the weird semi auto gearbox. I also had a Roadster that was bought with the standard failing of a blown turbo that had killed the middle cylinder. With the 'intelligent' fly by wire throttle and the semi auto gearbox, you couldn't even get it to move under it's own steam. It knew it wasn't running on all cylinders so the ECU wouldn't allow it to rev. So you couldn't rev the goolies off it and slip the clutch like you can on a proper car. Fitting the engine from a Yamaha R1 would make one fun through......
There's no 'nursing' a sick smart home - partly the appeal of my truck that I alluded to early one. I'll always get it home.
I ran the smart for years and it was a good car to me. Around town they are amazingly agile and on tight B-roads too. But they aren't comfortable so all there is to do is 'crack on with the journey' which inevitably will mean catching someone up and having to overtake them. At which point far too often they would stick their foot in it and hang me out to dry. It was that bullying and the vulnerability that I eventually tired of.
There are so many aspects of them identifiable from small European cars of the 1960s (deDion axle and auto trans - DAF, leaf front spring - Fiat, rear engine - DAF, Fiat, Renault etc, floor hinged brake pedal - VW, etc) that I wonder if Swatch didn't tempt designers from that era out of retirement for the initial design.

I have an R1 engine sat doing nothing and a mate doing his best to persuade me to mate it with my fortwo. Here's his bike (Honda Blackbird) engined one. The speedo is over-reading but it's still damned quick. I've been in it to the top end of 4th gear which we reckoned was about 110mph. It's probably topping out at about 125-130 mph here. It is relentlessly quick - and tractable. A point he made while pulling away from rest in 2nd gear without histrionics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjq3TVsAuhI

Gilbertd wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:32 pm
One of the reasons Shell have given for removing LPG pumps from their filling stations is that customers are asking for more electric charging points and Hydrogen filling stations. Now I've not seen anything running on Hydrogen except a couple of fleet vehicles in London where the owners have their own refuelling site and you couldn't put an electric recharge point on the filling station islands where the current LPG pumps are. It's bad enough waiting for someone who is clogging up the pump while they do their weekly shopping, but to have an electric car sitting there for hours on end would be ridiculous. Those filling stations that do have electric charge points have put them away from the normal fuel filling areas. But, I was in Kent last weekend and stopped at motorway services. Seeing the amount of dead leaves and rubbish all around the area of the electric charge points, they hadn't been used in days, if not weeks, and, while in France the weekend before, all the Autoroute service areas have charge points but I didn't see one in use. In fact, I saw one that had been closed down! Other than the odd Tesla owner I don't think electric car owners do long journeys. My sister expected me to disown her when she bought one recently but she is representative of the average electric car owner. She uses her car to go to work, all of 3 miles each way and to go shopping, 5 miles each way maximum. She was killing batteries on a conventional car in a year but her husband has a proper car they can use for long journeys, so electric is ideal for her.
I'm not the complete Luddite and your sister's use sounds perfect but I'm not convinced electrification is the panacea some imagine and there'd be a lot more pushback from the manufacturers but for 'dieselgate'. Don't shit on your own doorstep....

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Re: General mapping tips?

#49 Post by LPGC » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:27 pm

Pinger wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:15 pm
And if you are aware that my user name is from the American term for the engine that best deploys it - then you'll know the fascination it has over me!
Nope, didn't realise... The term 'pinger' rings a bell but I didn't know where I'd heard it, even a Google search didn't reveal which engine you refer to.
Full time LPG installer
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Re: General mapping tips?

#50 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:54 pm

LPGC wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:27 pm
Pinger wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:15 pm
And if you are aware that my user name is from the American term for the engine that best deploys it - then you'll know the fascination it has over me!
Nope, didn't realise... The term 'pinger' rings a bell but I didn't know where I'd heard it, even a Google search didn't reveal which engine you refer to.
Yanks refer to 2-strokes as 'pingers'. An engine that ''lives or dies depending on its exhaust system'' as someone once remarked.
I just can't accept that there is no future for them (though not in any current guise). ''The 2-stroke will be revisited when NOx becomes an emissions problem''. That was said sometime in the 1960s....

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Re: General mapping tips?

#51 Post by LPGC » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:41 pm

Pinger wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:54 pm
Yanks refer to 2-strokes as 'pingers'. An engine that ''lives or dies depending on its exhaust system'' as someone once remarked.
I just can't accept that there is no future for them (though not in any current guise). ''The 2-stroke will be revisited when NOx becomes an emissions problem''. That was said sometime in the 1960s....
Now I remember where I'd heard it, 2 strokes yes, wonder why Google didn't reveal this.

It's always been HC and CO emissions against 2 strokes but over the years there's been attempts to bring 2 strokes back using superchargers and direct injection etc.. Probably teaching sucking eggs here lol. Some diesel trains are 2 stroke with superchargers.
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240

Pinger
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Re: General mapping tips?

#52 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:19 pm

LPGC wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:41 pm
Pinger wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:54 pm
Yanks refer to 2-strokes as 'pingers'. An engine that ''lives or dies depending on its exhaust system'' as someone once remarked.
I just can't accept that there is no future for them (though not in any current guise). ''The 2-stroke will be revisited when NOx becomes an emissions problem''. That was said sometime in the 1960s....
Now I remember where I'd heard it, 2 strokes yes, wonder why Google didn't reveal this.

It's always been HC and CO emissions against 2 strokes but over the years there's been attempts to bring 2 strokes back using superchargers and direct injection etc.. Probably teaching sucking eggs here lol. Some diesel trains are 2 stroke with superchargers.
For sure the way they used to throw fuel out the exhaust port without troubling it with combustion was a disgrace but for engines operating at at up to 6000rpm (read outboards) direct injection as good as eliminated that - but still they were replaced by 4T that required superchargers to compete with 2T torque. The weirdest thing I ever read on the internet was about a guy in the USA who was part of Yamaha's outboard motor distribution network who without any prior warning or inkling was told to destroy a warehouseful of DI 2T outboards to make way for 4T replacements. At that point in time DI 2Ts were adored by boaters as being so much better than their carbed predecessors and could easily have been marketed for another decade.

There is a great deal of prejudice against 2T. If it returns it won't be in any recognisable guise but as an enabler for another nascent technology eg, HCCI, free piston gas generator, etc.

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Re: General mapping tips?

#53 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:43 pm

Budgetbond wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:18 pm

What are you going to do to improve top end performance on your closed loop singlepoint system any ideas yet?
Apologies - meant to answer this earlier.
It seems to be starved of gas. I've just replaced the 6mm copper line from the tank to engine bay (it's a long pipe!) with 8mm polypipe but haven't got around to installing the new filter yet and connect it to the reducer with 8mm (blame having to replace rear wheel cylinders and lousy weather). That's just to ensure the restriction doesn't lie there. If that's not enough of an improvement then I plan to reinstall the old reducer in parallel with its (supposed) replacement to up the gas flow and then hopefully open up the airflow potential of a new mixer that has been fitted. A work in progress along with winter preparations (eg a pending change of auto gearbox fluid including a purge of the torque convertor and fitting a thermostat which is next on the list). It drives OK as it is though - up to about 3500rpm at least which is enough for the main part but GM endowed it with 260hp and I want all of that - who wouldn't?

What is obvious though is that I'm not going to achieve the ideal of the actuator positions in and out of idle being close together. What looks like being my saviour is the AEB software opening the actuator immediately to (the higher) default position when the second TPS box is activated - which is pretty much as soon as I open the throttle. If I had to wait for a signal from the O2 sensor for this - I'd be toiling. As I mentioned previously - it's all very 'hands on' - and I still have to work out the effect of over-run on the default position calculation which is a parameter within my manipulation and can be a large part of the trucks operating regime (2500kg travels a fair distance even on a closed throttle once up to speed!).

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Re: General mapping tips?

#54 Post by Gilbertd » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:28 pm

Huh?
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Pinger
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Re: General mapping tips?

#55 Post by Pinger » Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:46 pm

onclick wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:22 pm
A test for coils leaking voltage that I've never ever heard mentioned...
Cavorting around this forum randomly quoting lines from my posts isn't achieving anything positive. Pack it in or I suspect your access will be denied.

If you have a genuine need to raise your post count, have a word with the mods to see if they can help. Before you piss them off.

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Re: General mapping tips?

#56 Post by Gilbertd » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:14 pm

He has and has just got himself a 2 week ban and his posts deleted. I was suspicious of his first post but let it go, now it was starting to get silly.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Pinger
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Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:08 pm

Re: General mapping tips?

#57 Post by Pinger » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:12 pm

Gilbertd wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:14 pm
He has and has just got himself a 2 week ban and his posts deleted. I was suspicious of his first post but let it go, now it was starting to get silly.
If it had continued I'd have brought it to your attention - but you'd noticed anyway.
Utterly pointless behaviour.

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