Brim to brim...

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Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#41 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:06 am

Brian_H wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:39 pm
You'd probabbly struggle to get XP to run on a tablet, good chance even if you managed to get it installed, that there might not be any drivers for the touchscreen for XP. Windows 7 a bit better bet, but most started out on windows 8, and theres little difference between 8 and 10 really for that sort of stuff, if it works on one it would work on the other in most cases.
I remembered after posting that W8 was really the start of OSs for touchscreen devices.
I don't really feel inclined to be changing OS systems - it's really not my domain!
Brian_H wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:39 pm
Swapping the ECU out whilst possible, is probabbly not a sensible way to tackle the problem of the level sender not working as well as you'd like. Several are available here > https://tinleytech.co.uk/product-catego ... l-systems/ though I've no idea if the software for any of them is better than what you've already got, I'd suspect not though most of them use the same software with some different code to work with each version of the AEB175 (its the same software underneath, just you need the version that matches what you've got fitted).
Not the gauge but the ability to monitor O2 sensor and actuator in real time while driving without having to look so far away from the dash as I still have a lot of calibration work to do. Rather than specific test drives, I want something that can be read during all journeys in the truck.
As G alluded, changing the LPG ECU wont achieve much so the existing one stays.
Brian_H wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:39 pm
If your only looking to do it short term and the battery at least works a bit, then the laptop you've got and and inverter would be a possible option? First example that comes to hand being this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eono-Essential ... 732&sr=8-5
Something smaller, lighter, and runs from 5V is the aim.

Gilbertd
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Re: Brim to brim...

#42 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:24 am

Why 5V? I've got a little Acer Aspire netbook that I bought to play around with and to take abroad with me for emails and that weighs next to nothing. There's a few on eBay quite cheap but none seem to come with chargers, although this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toshiba-NB50 ... 4459636639 would do it and only has a 10" screen. If you are lucky, it may even run from 12V so you wouldn't need a charger.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

LPGC
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Re: Brim to brim...

#43 Post by LPGC » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:30 am

An invertor to run your existing laptop that has a failed battery?

When I've needed to use a 'parallel port dongle' to allow access to 'special' areas of older LPG software, when I didn't have a laptop with a parallel port, I've run a full size older desktop PC with CRT monitor on the passenger seat of vehicles from an invertor!
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Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#44 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:35 am

Gilbertd wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:37 pm
I just sit the laptop on the floor in the passenger footwell...... The battery in my Toughbook is completely shot but I've got a car charger for it so just run it from the fag lighter socket so a cheap inverter would be another option to run what you have.
I can continue to use the lap top on the passenger seat (as visible as it would be in the footwell) for essential calibration work but it isn't at all to my liking. I have nearly left the road several times as a consequence of just looking at it long enough to read what I have to - especially when I'm reading at WOT (or approaching WOT). It is genuinely frightening at best and down right dangerous at worst.
More to the point though, I want to see exactly what is happening as I drive the truck as it is to be driven - especially exiting corners where I'm going from closed to (varying degrees of) open throttle. For that, it has to be in my normal sightline.

See photo below. The only viable place for a screen is to the right of the instrument cluster. It would obscure the radio (no loss) and the heater controls (I can live with that) and have to be propped on something emerging from the oddments box below the heater control panel. There is just room there for a 10'' screen with no surround. It has to be slim enough not to impede the transmission column shifter and light enough to be easily supported. If I cant get something to fit there then I give up.
The only other alternative is phone (near impossible to obtain) sized suctioned to the windscreen but anything larger impedes visibility through the screen. The dash being set so high really doesn't help and the high part on the passenger side is airbag so cannot really be messed about with. A low tray arrangement there would make life a lot easier but that's not what it is!
Gilbertd wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:37 pm
You can get brand new single point controllers but they use the same software as the older ones because it just works. Even the latest versions of the software are the same with minor changes. What you have to remember is that we are talking serial data comms, something that the computing world considers obsolete but is still used all the time in industry.
As per previous post - no point in changing.
Getting the existing one to work with W10 is the challenge!
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Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#45 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:47 am

Gilbertd wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:24 am
Why 5V? I've got a little Acer Aspire netbook that I bought to play around with and to take abroad with me for emails and that weighs next to nothing. There's a few on eBay quite cheap but none seem to come with chargers, although this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toshiba-NB50 ... 4459636639 would do it and only has a 10" screen. If you are lucky, it may even run from 12V so you wouldn't need a charger.
Getting closer - but you'll see my reasoning in a previous post.
I really don't want an invertor so anything running from the truck's 12V ciggy lighter sockets is ideal. Tablets seem to run on 5V - ideal as I have 12V to 5V in USB and other configurations.
The benefit of a tablet is being able to ditch the keyboard and having nothing larger or heavier than the screen to contend with.

I'm also exploring (I have more info waiting for me on another forum) reading data from the truck's ECU (via OBD port) which is probably more friendly re more recent OS systems. If that's viable, I can at least have 02 and TPS but not actuator activity displayed.

Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#46 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:52 am

LPGC wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:30 am
An invertor to run your existing laptop that has a failed battery?
I have functioning lap top with good battery (for about an hour or so at least) covered....
LPGC wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:30 am
When I've needed to use a 'parallel port dongle' to allow access to 'special' areas of older LPG software, when I didn't have a laptop with a parallel port, I've run a full size older desktop PC with CRT monitor on the passenger seat of vehicles from an invertor!
... it' just that it's a bit too much like the above to read!
Seriously, if I have an accident on account of reading a lap top on the passenger seat on ir in the footwell the law will crucify me. I wouldn't want to encounter someone on the road doing this!

Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#47 Post by Pinger » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:45 pm

Here's an internet pic that better shows the space on the dash available.
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Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#48 Post by Pinger » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:21 pm

I tried loading the AEB software onto a laptop running W8 (or W8.1 - not exactly sure) and can't do it. Fails at the first step - ''save to desktop''. So if it won't work on W8 then tablets are out of the question (and possibly still on the bulky side).
But early Nokia Lumia phones (10 series) ran W7.5. Viable?
(As far as I can make out they have a separate (5V) charging socket and a USB port - will have to get that confirmed though and there's a place in London that sells them (bare - no charger) for £15-30).

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Re: Brim to brim...

#49 Post by Brian_H » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:26 pm

The early Nokia windows phones run windows mobile. Not an option its a completely different OS.

Some windows 8 tablets run windows 8 RT - that won't work with normal windows programs, only apps (I think) downloaded from the microsoft store. If its proper windows 8 it should work, though its not clear from your post where the problem your having is. It should be a case of save the installation file for the AEB software to the tablet somewhere, and then running it. Easiest way to do that is to download it on the tablet directly and then you should be able to just run it.

Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#50 Post by Pinger » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:41 pm

OK, I'll forget about Nokias then.
I'll have another shot at getting the AEB software onto this laptop running W8 or 8.1 (how or where do I find out which?).
If I can make it work on W8 then a tablet is still a possibility - just want to see it working on W8 first.
Software fell off my W7 laptop this morning, You guys really aren't joking when you call it 'unstable'.

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Re: Brim to brim...

#51 Post by Brian_H » Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:54 pm

Its software really dating from the days of windows 98/2000 era, so expecting it to be fully stable is optermistic at best. usb serial ports rather than true serial ports can add another layer of problems, sometimes they work, other times they barely work for a multitude of reasons.

Won't matter if its 8 or 8.1 (its more likely 8.1 if its been on the internet, 8 could be updated to 8.1 anyway) but if you run the program "winver" using the run box, that will tell you. Or right click your computer icon, and goto properties, it should tell you the windows version on that screen as well.

Gilbertd
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Re: Brim to brim...

#52 Post by Gilbertd » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:47 pm

It isn't the software that is unstable, 9 times out of 10 it's the USB to serial adapter. Ones using the FTDI chipset work better, but still not perfectly and I've got a PCMCIA card serial adapter and that works perfectly. However, you can't beat a proper old school serial port and Windows 2000 (or NT).

I have owned nothing but Nokia phones since analogue days so have gone through the versions with Snake, through Nokia's own Symbian operating system and onto the Windows phones (most of which I still have as they are pretty much worthless but still OK as a spare). Even the earliest ones charged through the USB port. But, you've done your tests using the laptop in the footwell method and once you get it set up, you'll only need to check it every so often so it seems a lot of effort to go to for something you'll probably only use very infrequently. I plug mine in to check it maybe once a year, if that, unless I start getting the slow flashing of the yellow LED to signify it's detected an error. Even that has stopped now since I started using NTK lambda sensors instead of cheapo Chinese ones.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#53 Post by Pinger » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:06 pm

Brian_H wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:54 pm
Its software really dating from the days of windows 98/2000 era, so expecting it to be fully stable is optermistic at best. usb serial ports rather than true serial ports can add another layer of problems, sometimes they work, other times they barely work for a multitude of reasons.
I think I do have a small laptop here with a true serial port - Tandy 200!
Brian_H wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:54 pm
Won't matter if its 8 or 8.1 (its more likely 8.1 if its been on the internet, 8 could be updated to 8.1 anyway) but if you run the program "winver" using the run box, that will tell you. Or right click your computer icon, and goto properties, it should tell you the windows version on that screen as well.
I'll try again.

Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#54 Post by Pinger » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:20 pm

Gilbertd wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:47 pm
It isn't the software that is unstable, 9 times out of 10 it's the USB to serial adapter. Ones using the FTDI chipset work better, but still not perfectly and I've got a PCMCIA card serial adapter and that works perfectly. However, you can't beat a proper old school serial port and Windows 2000 (or NT).
The 'serial adaptor' - that's part of the cable - the bit with the LEDs - yes?
Gilbertd wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:47 pm
I have owned nothing but Nokia phones since analogue days so have gone through the versions with Snake, through Nokia's own Symbian operating system and onto the Windows phones (most of which I still have as they are pretty much worthless but still OK as a spare). Even the earliest ones charged through the USB port. But, you've done your tests using the laptop in the footwell method and once you get it set up, you'll only need to check it every so often so it seems a lot of effort to go to for something you'll probably only use very infrequently. I plug mine in to check it maybe once a year, if that, unless I start getting the slow flashing of the yellow LED to signify it's detected an error. Even that has stopped now since I started using NTK lambda sensors instead of cheapo Chinese ones.
True, the worst is over having to read for leanness at WOT and just glancing at it watching for responses on going on or off throttle was a lot easier and safer. What remains to be done can probably be accomplished with the laptop without too much difficulty. Something smaller though would still be worth having.

Knowing USB pinouts though should make it possible to open up a device and rewire battery charging to a separate socket - yes? Would that make a Nokia 20 series running W8 viable (or is that W8 a version of Windows Mobile also)?

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Re: Brim to brim...

#55 Post by Gilbertd » Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:05 am

Probably, if you bought a USB cable. Some come as two parts, a serial cable and a serial to USB adapter but if you've got a cable with the AEB diagnostic plug on one end and USB on the other, the adapter is part of it. Nokia phone running W8 is Windows Mobile 8, not Windows 8, different animal entirely just sharing a front end.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#56 Post by Pinger » Fri Oct 23, 2020 9:50 am

Gilbertd wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:05 am
Probably, if you bought a USB cable. Some come as two parts, a serial cable and a serial to USB adapter but if you've got a cable with the AEB diagnostic plug on one end and USB on the other, the adapter is part of it.
Yep that's what I have.
Hoping to get a chance today to get the laptop to connect with the truck as I'm itching to find out where the out of idle default has settled with it's new found abundant gas supply. The final 60 miles (yesterday) were in one hit. A mixture of tightish B-roads, more open A-road, a mile (30mph) trundle through the village then another 2 miles of A-road to arrive home. Most of that running was between 50 and 65mph with 70-80mph in places. That is pretty much what the truck was bought to do. My hope is that despite some relatively hard running, the default will have dropped a touch.
I'll post the result on my other thread - along with (hopefully) I think, a positive result from me recently installed valve saver - configured slightly differently from the norm.
Gilbertd wrote:
Fri Oct 23, 2020 1:05 am
Nokia phone running W8 is Windows Mobile 8, not Windows 8, different animal entirely just sharing a front end.
Damnation!

Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#57 Post by Pinger » Sat Nov 07, 2020 1:48 pm

Given that all I want displayed during driving is AFR and actuator position I've ordered an AFR gauge for the dash. Half way there then.

My truck has most (I think) of its gauges driven by stepper motors. Here's one here being opened up >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICJqAXFqSUw
You'll get the gist within the first minute or so of what these things are like. My question, can I wire one of these in parallel with my actuator and create an analogue gauge such that I can see actuator movement (absolute values not absolutely necessary but if calibration possible - a bonus)?

(edit PS. Found this article >> https://www.cypress.com/documentation/r ... art-gauges which is much more in-depth but completely over my head. Did notice this in it though: ''can be driven directly by the microcontroller due to low operation current (15-25mA per coil).'' ).

While we're talking gauges, when I had the laptop hooked up last week I noticed the truck's tach and the AEB on-screen tach don't agree. Is the tach on the AEB system known to be 100% accurate? (I get the feeling that out of the two, it isn't GM's that is likely to be the more concise).

And while we're talking AEB - is there any documentation anywhere that describes operating strategies (eg, going to default actuator setting when TPS box changes, etc - that sort of stuff)? I've searched the 'net but it's all injection kit that's catered for. Specifically, it is the AEB Millenium system I want to know more about.

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Re: Brim to brim...

#58 Post by Gilbertd » Sat Nov 07, 2020 5:46 pm

How far out are the tach readings? The settings page for single coil, dual coil, etc tells the AEB controller how many pulses per rev it expects to see. So if it is reading half or twice real life, a change there should get it reading right. I've never seen anything that explains fully what affect the different settings do, there's the manual (on my Google Drive here https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T6Nuyf ... sp=sharing English from page 20) but that doesn't really explain much at all.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Pinger
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Re: Brim to brim...

#59 Post by Pinger » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:08 pm

Thanks Gilbertd - I'd forgotten about the manual. Handy, it lets me see the 'optionals' without having to hook the laptop to the car.
It's something LPGC mentioned a while back about how an AEB will shift to default actuator setting when there's a shift from one TPS box to another. The different ''flavours'' (eg, Millenium, Leonardo, etc) behave differently apparently.
It's on the other thread. I'll re-read what else is there and ask any questions that are still on my mind there.

Tach error is GM tach over-reading by 15-20% vs AEB. Cylinder count selection is correctly at 8. At 60mph (OD 4th TC locked) the GM tach shows 2300rpm (which tallies with gearing), the AEB shows 2000rpm. At idle GM shows around 600 rpm, AEB 500. Maybe my GM manuals have the correct speed it should idle at.

Looking at manual reminded me about the existence of hand held controllers. Never ever seen one or even a picture of one. Compact enough for dash mounting?

Gilbertd
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Re: Brim to brim...

#60 Post by Gilbertd » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:33 pm

Pinger wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:08 pm
Looking at manual reminded me about the existence of hand held controllers. Never ever seen one or even a picture of one. Compact enough for dash mounting?
No, neither have I and I bet if you ever did find one, it'll be an arm and leg to buy.

My car is fitted with what the label says is a Bigas Pegaso but with Leo written on it in felt pen and only the AEB Leonardo software will connect (so I suspect it has been flashed with Leonardo firmware at some point in the past). My other car is fitted with an OMVL Millennium one so only the Millennium software will connect but they both respond and operate in exactly the same way.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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