What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

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LPGC
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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#41 Post by LPGC » Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:16 am

For testing purposes just cobble up some sort of restriction to place in front of the mixer / intake. If venturi size / lack of signal is the problem a big enough restriction will reveal it. Could just use your hand... but it can sting a bit like getting a slap if you get a backfire during the process ;-) Use something that won't break up and get sucked into the engine in worst case scenario, metal biscuit tin lid etc. We're only talking moving it over the inlet so it blocks some of the venturi off, you don't have to make holes in anything for this... But I've driven hundreds of miles using a mixer made from a baked beans can! Worked very well.
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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#42 Post by CNG » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:08 am

Will do, already used a combination of a bean-tin and bubble-wrap to do the smoke test. Use of available resources Sarge...

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#43 Post by CNG » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:03 pm

OK, I've had a play and as suggestions...:

a) Try running with SU piston removed

Thought about doing this first, but even if it works, I'm not sure it gets me anywhere or tell me much - I need the piston in place, whereas...


b) 1 x BLOS - choking off inlet
Baked-bean tin.... this helped a lot. It proves what removing the SU piston proves but is quicker to do.

c) Filter >> 1 x BLOS >> 70mm mixer >> SU >> Manifold

This failed. Would barely run, all the screws I could find would be right in and then I could get it to idle - just. AFR was very rich. Oddly it'd die weak just off idle. I concluded this was caused by screws in 'full in" strangling demand. I gave up


d) Filter >> 70mm mixer >> 1 x BLOS >> SU >> Manifold

This worked brilliantly, a bit of fettling and it's pretty much at stoich throughout the rev range. 2 x BLOS helped, this it liked more - runs better still. Power valve fitted only to the cooker-ring. Screwed almost home, PV permits a float-level of gas, the majority going thru' the BLOS.


It still looks a fright, but I'm down to 1 x BLOS + 1 x cooker ring. It runs better than it did with 2 x BLOS. I conclude a suction issue related to the greater demands of the gas. A BLOS, be it one or two is superior to plain mixers in this set-up. The BLOS keeps 'stoich' really well. Simple mixers don't seem to create the suction required without a baked-bean tin? I've the richest needle in the BLOS I could get. If I 'doctor' this one or get an ever richer needle, I reckon I could be rid of the cooker ring. The hero in this set-up is the BLOS.

An AEB Leonardo next.

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#44 Post by robertXX » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:27 pm

Excellent ,well done.

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#45 Post by LPGC » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:42 pm

I think it's great that it's running well but there will be a simpler neater solution. Mixers can usually be fitted with various sizes of venturi, this isn't to say a Blos or even 2 won't do just as good a job but beware drawing conclusions. If 2 Blos' are no detriment to 1 Blos, then 1000 Blos wouldn't be a detriment to 1 Blos.. But it's intuitive that 1000 Blos would be a detriment and maybe could be more of a detriment to airflow than a smaller venturi on a 70mm mixer.
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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#46 Post by CNG » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:01 am

Thanks for the pat on the back RobXX, however I can't see it's truly warranted quite yet. As my post the solution works in this set-up, more by luck than judgement. It shouldn't require two of any mixer, BLOS or otherwise, and LPGC is absolutely correct, it's not elegant. Just better than it was. It works better than it has any right to?!
2-BLOS+Mixer-03-03-20-01.gif
2-BLOS+Mixer-03-03-20-01.gif (163.74 KiB) Viewed 1956 times
I'm pretty sure with more fettling, from what I've learnt about this set-up, putting the second BLOS back on, and it'd be better still. But I don't want 2 x BLOS, at some point down the line, that's asking for trouble.
1-Lambda-Series-Landrover.gif
1-Lambda-Series-Landrover.gif (167.88 KiB) Viewed 1956 times
And jeez. That gauge is rather incongruous stuck there, however it's been damned useful... Wavering on/very near Stoich at around 16.9 -17.3, for a mechanical device I reckon that's v.good. Mixers alone won't work, the BLOS is needed to give vacuum, and nearly manages this on it's own. Bought with a P38 Leonardo kit on eBay, I've got another 70mm mixer on the way. Added to my current 70mm mixer, I'll give it a go. 2 x mixers metered via the Leo might provide vacuum the SU mixer couldn't. I would agree with LPGC, I'm reaching for a false conclusion. Shoving an AEB Leonardo on will suffice for much better metering than any classic Land rover warrants, but something is still amiss.

BTW: If you like to know this stuff.... and I do, seen mounting the intake tube onto the rocker-cover, that's what's called a Munson Ring [No, I didn't know either].
Last edited by CNG on Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#47 Post by robertXX » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:46 am

is your innovate WB re set to have cng readings ?

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#48 Post by CNG » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:55 am

I had to smile. I hope so, we're in deep doo-doo if it's not. I'm not sure it'd even run on 14.7. It so happens I now have the gauge displaying Lambda. Lambda 1.0 is Lambda 1.0 is Lambda 1.0 no matter what the fuel type, and in the odd moment I run petrol, it means the scale stays put. The sensor is reading the O2 left after combustion, thus for Lambda 1.0 that's the same regardless of fuel. Minded to this, I'm not sure what the fascination is with AFR, Lambda is far less confusing eg: you wouldn't have needed the question.
AFR vs Lambda Table1.png
AFR vs Lambda Table1.png (153.06 KiB) Viewed 1941 times


Methinks, at 6.4 for Lambda, methanol might be entertaining. One thing I've looked-up and not found a proper answer to, is why if stoich is perfect combustion, will racers run 'rich'. It gives more power, but why? I had it we want air and as much as the fuel will burn, not less?
Last edited by CNG on Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:06 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#49 Post by robertXX » Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:58 am

just checking :)

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#50 Post by CNG » Wed Mar 04, 2020 9:40 am

I remember now, what the issue is, running methanol I mean....


Methanol Drag Racer Fire suit.jpg
Methanol Drag Racer Fire suit.jpg (84.92 KiB) Viewed 1933 times

"No thank you, I’ll just stand at the bar. I shouldn’t wish to attract any attention." [Adam West].

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#51 Post by DodgeRover1 » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:28 pm

CNG wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:55 am
why if stoich is perfect combustion, will racers run 'rich'. It gives more power, but why? I had it we want air and as much as the fuel will burn, not less?
From a motorcycle racing point of view is is better (especially with 2 strokes) to run slightly rich than a fraction lean as rich engines don't seize up, running a slightly rich mixture also helps with cooling - less of an issue in these days of water cooling but when everything was air cooled it was.

Probably teaching you to suck eggs but you have wound the transport screws (that there isn't a single damn mention of in the instructions) fully out on the BLOS's?
Are your units ok at the point where the gas hose goes in? Mine has developed an air leak and required a good amount of grease round it to get it sealed.
Mine also has the problem of too much suck - I'll try a weak needle at some point.

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#52 Post by CNG » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:44 pm

Yes I'd read about cooling, yet i've not found a definitive answer to that question. I think I said Tinley Tech were sending me all sorts of weaker needles for BLOS, two apparently identical 'weak' needles found me with one as rich as I've seen. But they were good about this and got it sorted.

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#53 Post by CNG » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:18 am

Well, save the COVID lock-down thing, I've done a heap of miles lately and it works. 1 X BLOS + 1 x 70mm mixer, and it sits at Stoich for 95% of the time anyway. The BLOS is very good. I still wonder why I need better, but I'm going for a Leonardo on there anyway.

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#54 Post by DodgeRover1 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:56 pm

Looking forward to the updates

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#55 Post by CNG » Sun May 10, 2020 10:03 pm

The wiring loom is a real mess, and i've been reluctant to add still more complication, until it's sorted. I'm doing a tidy-up before I hang the Leonardo on.

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#56 Post by DodgeRover1 » Sun May 24, 2020 7:45 pm

Following your tip here I added a power valve before my BLOS, it running a lot closer to stochiometric when reving now without needing the main mixture adjustment on the BLOS to be virtually closed off, I just need to sort out my A/F ratio meter as its had a hissy fit - i think due to the lambda getting clagged with oil from the worn engine, If i really hammer it and let it rev out it will work for a while before failing to read again

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Re: What pressure should a Single point vapouriser/reducer be set to?

#57 Post by CNG » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:46 pm

Interesting to hear you've found my solution works for you too? Odd, I'm still not convinced I understand why it is necessary in my case, yet it works for me?
Progress on this asspect of my project has come to a halt. It works well as it is.

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