Diy fitting?

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Brian_H
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Re: Diy fitting?

#141 Post by Brian_H » Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:36 pm

Get it right on petrol first, your fighting a losing battle otherwise. At least you have a cylinder to look at for problems.

Bear in mind if you have a poor connection on the petrol loom where the lpg injector cuts are, that this might only show on petrol operation. You really need to have any connections done in solder to be sure they will be good.

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Re: Diy fitting?

#142 Post by LPGC » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:56 pm

Iirc you said you messed up petrol injectors trying to clean them? Did you fit all new petrol injectors of the correct spec and make sure there were no bits or inappropriate cleaning fluids in the feeds to petrol injectors before fitting?
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Re: Diy fitting?

#143 Post by Gilbertd » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:19 pm

I've got at least 3 spare 1ZZ-FE injectors and coil packs if you want me to dig them out.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
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96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


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Budgetbond
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Re: Diy fitting?

#144 Post by Budgetbond » Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:34 pm

Hiya just got in meant to do a few more things today but started raining and had to go out, cheers for the replies I'll update more in a min, but briefly, yeah I tried cleaning my spare injectors myself thought it was a good idea but wasn't and try those adaptor nozzles another bad idea, being a bit daunted at manifold drilling.
Anyway injectors have been supposedly pro cleaned by a bloke who just happened to do it round the corner thinking of a quick turnaround and took over a week and I wasn't actually happy with them, so I'm a bit unsure about em.
But anyway more suspect is my wiring which I'm sure s connected up the right way round etc, but if an injector signal wire isn't done perfectly would that mean the strength and duration of the pulse wouldn't be right and therefore not fuel enough, run lean and misfire?
With regards the live injector wire I assumed if you had a contact you had power, but if those contacts weren't perfect could that reduce the squirt or dose they're supposed to eject?
Thanks for your encouragement and Richard yeah have you got a PayPal account I can credit you, I'll send you a message.
I'll update more in a bit now it's dark.

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Re: Diy fitting?

#145 Post by Budgetbond » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:21 pm

I appreciate all your expertise I think it's brilliant, fascinating and in a v noble quest, good on yers.

But anyway, haven't managed to do that much today unfort, I'll have to do it tommorrow.
I always knew that the trickiest part of my build would be the troubleshooting, I was particularly surprised my car actually seem to run quite well on gas when I first turned it on.

So after initially running quite well on petrol and gas, but running rich.

It now really misfires badly particularly on petrol, it's drivable on gas.
I've had codes of o0300 multiple + p0302 cylinder 2 misfires p0171 running lean bank 1 (it's a straight 4 cyl engine)
P1349- I cleaned and changed vvti solenoid + filter, ran better initially but a false dawn.

Now thinking of what I've done, my wiring tho I think is all the right way around now, isn't connected the best yet, just crimped and sealed as best as poss for now and my rpm signal was more taken in initial hope from the coil wire.
But it could also be because the electrical system has taken a hammering from this power on/power off, imperfect connections and running for a while.

I haven't tested conclusively yet cos I ran out of carb cleaner but I don't think there's any air leaks or fuel leaks from my injectors, I did test a lot for leaks straight after running on gas for the first time.
It's also worse than just an air leak really and it's got worse. But I 'll double check that just in case.
As I mentioned I did get my injectors back from a pro cleaning that took and needed ages apparently. (I won't try and diy clean them again it mustve made them a lot worse).
But the injector bodies were still that filthy upon return I sort of still suspect them, you wouldve thought that a pro would at least clean the outside a as well too, but anyway.

I've tried playing with the software and settings for a bit, couldn't see anything massively astray from my untrained eye tho.

On diagnosis it seems that the no 2 cylinder is injecting a bit more gas and petrol into that cylinder by a couple of extra m/seconds.
By switching on and off gas and petrol in individual cylinders didn't massively affect the running.

The software detected an injector error on cylinder 2. And previously quite a few voltage errors.
(Its a bit confusing the way mine's set up with the wiring that I think my lpg cylinder one injector plug in the software too presumably is in the cylinder 4 position on the car the other side from the cam chain.)

(Prob is too is that I've been running on so much unburnt fuel I also fear for my cat etc long term.)

Anyway tommorrow am gonna try moving the coils around to see if the fault follows it, and Simon have I read from you it's better if you run a narrower 0.3 plug gap, am gonna probably change,/clean and regap the plugs at the same time to try and eliminate those from the mix.

My software

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Re: Diy fitting?

#146 Post by Brian_H » Fri Jul 24, 2020 11:41 pm

it might be worth confirming what colour wires are connected to each petrol injector, and which ones are connected to the lpg injector on that cylinder, given you said the labels had come off before. Doubt the rpm signal is causing your issues unless its not reading right in the software for the gas system, but a dodgy connection to a petrol injector cut will not help either.

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Re: Diy fitting?

#147 Post by Budgetbond » Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:39 am

Hiya Brian I could get you a photo but you'd probably think it wasn't pretty that bright sheathings covering up a multitude of sins!!!

But I think I've got the right cuts I've tried switching them and looked at the wiring diagram but I think they're right now and it was running ok, it's just the quality of the connections im a bit concerned of, but something's occurred to have caused the fairly suddenish deterioration.

(The Lpg wires were already connected to a loom and but seemed back to front compared to mine I couldn't work it out, but I've just cut the wires and connected them to the same colour coding as mine, the only difference is my lpg injector numbering is 4-1 on the engine from the cambelt side but the corresponding injectors are connected on top of each other from left to right.

I'll try those things you've suggested later today Brian, soz haven't messaged you back yet, it was raining when I got in last night, hopefully one of your suggestions 'll get it back running on petrol ok, just need to keep it simple for now.

I'll try switching the coils and change the plugs at the same time they're probably coming up to 20k miles, if I clean up a previous spare set what should I gap them up to is it supposed to be narrower 0.9mm on Lpg from what I was reading?

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Re: Diy fitting?

#148 Post by Budgetbond » Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:13 pm

Anyway, found some old coils + plugs but not another set of 4, so I've cleaned up my old plugs they were really dirty actually and regapped down to 0.75mm (oe gap on them was 1.1mm) tested the coils for resistance on a multimeter couldn't actually find any with a reading for resistance and tried to start and now won't even fire at all on any cylinder.

Gonna quickly swap for another set of non ideal plugs temporary and see if I get any firing then

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Re: Diy fitting?

#149 Post by Budgetbond » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:31 pm

Just tried another mismatched set of plugs and swapped some of the coils over but am not getting any to fire at all now gonna have another think

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Re: Diy fitting?

#150 Post by Brian_H » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:20 pm

Where are you putting the probes to test the coils?

I'd forget about regapping until you get it working on petrol for now if it seems to be causing problems.

Any idea if you can confirm if its a lack of spark or lack of petrol thats the cause of the problems? Lack of petrol might be caused by a problem with the positive pickup for the lpg if you've taken it off the petrol injector positive feed and its not staying connected. Though that wouldn't explain the apparant coil pack resistance issue.

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Re: Diy fitting?

#151 Post by Budgetbond » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:11 pm

Good ideas Brian hang on I'll try a few more things hang on and thanks

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Re: Diy fitting?

#152 Post by Budgetbond » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:29 pm

I've tried swapping over a few coils and plugs again but getting a completely no start situ not firing at all either no fuel or no spark at all.

I know I could do with a new set of plugs for starters are the standard ngk s ok to get and potentially reduce the gap in the future ( I know u can get a one colder plug but just want it running ok on petrol for now.)

I tested the coils just for resistance just on the connector prongs they were pretty much all the same no readings outta place I found 3 more spare used ones)

Also checked the plugs on the multimeter just in case but nothing outta the ordinary there.

I was getting 5v power from the coil connectors so think I'm getting power can check for a spark on them out tommorrow on turning over.

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Re: Diy fitting?

#153 Post by Brian_H » Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:11 pm

5v would be a bit odd to me, I'd expect them to be 12v? You probabbly need to get to a diagnosis of either a lack of spark, or something else, so thats a good plan.

I have managed to flood a injected petrol engine with a vacuum leak and dodgy maf causing issues (hadn't been noticed prior to failure to start), but I'd expect you would have noticed if that was the case.

Even with a dodgy coil or even 2, I'd still expect it to at least try to fire up, if not manage to run badly.

Do you have any way to access the car obd system to see if anything is showing up there?

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Re: Diy fitting?

#154 Post by Budgetbond » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:00 pm

Yeah soz Brian you're a godsend im slightly outta my depth.

So gone too a completely not firing at all situ from a multi cylinder misfire after swapping coils and plugs.

Gonna try fuses and have a think,see if I can think of how to check if petrols actually being injected or if there s no sparking.

Il l try the obd if anythings getting stored and try my multimeter again

I'll message you back in a bit Brian thanks

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Re: Diy fitting?

#155 Post by Budgetbond » Sun Jul 26, 2020 1:03 pm

I'll take a coil and plug out and see if I can spot a spark and smell fuel at the sametime

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Re: Diy fitting?

#156 Post by Brian_H » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:51 pm

Of course, if you have neither fuel or spark, it might be a failed crank position sensor (or wiring issue to do with same sensor), and nothing to do with the coil pack or fuel side. you might get that picked up on obd, though I've had them fail and not show up as a fault on obd so no guarantee there.

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Re: Diy fitting?

#157 Post by Budgetbond » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:06 pm

Yeah thanks Brian are the crank position sensor and cam position sensor also faults that can occur, I could cope with changing a cam sensor but the crank sensor sounds quite tricky.

Anyway, apols for the lack of updates was gonna do more, but thought I'd get some news.

I've temporarily pulled the fuse out of the lpg system was thinking about what you said about the fuel pick up tried swapping the coils and plugs again checked and swapped some fuses and relays I spotted the fault straight away then one of the important fuses had blown hence no spark and fuel.

It's running much better on petrol now much better than even before I started, I've ordered a new standard set of ngk copper plugs and I'll refit em when they arrive first (previous plugs were in a much worser state than I expected) should I reduce the gap on the new plugs thought to 0.75 from 1.1mms or should I just take 0.2 off the new ones?

So it mustve been a combo of coils and plugs I found 3 spare coils is there anyway of telling with a multimeter easily which would be the best ones, any idea?

But a fuse had blown, does this mean there may have been a short that had occurred ie, something like 2_wires touching that shouldn't or a voltage on/off spike?

My coils do seem to take 5v by the way, which matches the settings in the software too, which quite surprised me youd think they'd want to take the full 12v s wouldn't they.

Anyway, relief for me no more misfires on petrol, running better than before, no codes so far.
I'm going to redo the connections cos I may be getting some shorts, the fuel injectors do seem to work, I got the originals cleaned round the corner but shouldve just got more,they seem to be ok,I don't think I've got any vac leaks but I'll double check when I get some more carb cleaner.
At least I'm cracking off some of the pitfalls.

Was gonna put my original air box back on with another air filter and clean the maf and throttle body and iacv at the same time in due course to, to try and improve things a bit further too
Cheers for all your suggestions I'll send you a message Brian

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Re: Diy fitting?

#158 Post by Brian_H » Sun Jul 26, 2020 7:24 pm

Crack sensor depends on the engine, the only one I've changed had a single bolt and plug to remove it. Took a while as it was in an awkard position, but not particualyl difficult otherwise. Fuse has obviously blown for some reason, either a short between wires or anything earthed (most of the metal bits of the car) would seem the logical cause for that. Just powering something on/off shouldn't do it. I'd suspect some sort of wiring issue or at least want to rule out the wiring you have already done as a first step on that.

As said, as long as the rpm signal is showing the right value in the software (it matches the rpm shown on the instrument cluster) then you should be fine there.

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Re: Diy fitting?

#159 Post by Budgetbond » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:03 pm

Anyway, it's running back on petrol better now, think I spotted a couple of probs I think I've rectified, one of my coils had a slightly higher resistance value than the rest I don't know whether that was significant, also my plugs were just due to be changed but they were in a much worse state than I anticipated.

I've got some standard copper ngk's on the way to fit and I'll try and fit my best coils with the lowest resistance values in, I was thinking maybe of reducing my plug gap from 1.1mms to 0.8mm?

Some better electrical stuff came in the post today I was thinking of improving some of my current lol connections to improve long term durability and reducing the chance of shorts.

I had a couple of general questions I thought I'd ask, my fuel gauge lights haven't gone down with usage, there's a new wire on it, is this a common thing and easily rectified? (I have got a spare to fit potentially)

And I noticed on the software various numbers for fuel gauge settings what do they indicate and does it need setting up at all?

Also, I noticed my switch/system has 'beeped' a lot over the time I've used it, now does this just identify a fault (I know it could have) or are there other reasons it can beep? Eg. Mine usually beeps when I turn off the ignition and remove keys.

Also, don't know whether anyone does this but I did get repair kits for my basic reducer and magic jet injectors is it easy to refurb them and is it even worthwhile given the cost of replacement s?

Thanks and cheers g

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Re: Diy fitting?

#160 Post by Brian_H » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:32 pm

You may need to configure the fuel levels in the software, thats what the number set. If you want an easy way to work out where it should be, fill the tank and note where it reads (usually a voltage) and then work out how far you can go on a complete tank (probabbly need to run it to do that).Then divide the distance done by the amount of lights (usually 5) and then check what the voltage shown is after that mileage.

Alternatively for now, fill it, set the value down a bit from the full value, then set the other values to a lower setting (going down with each one).

Might help to see a screenshot of your settings, and confirm the type of sender on the tank.

Won't make any difference to anything other than whats shown on the level gauge. Won't stop it running on gas etc!.

Usually beeping indicates a fault, should be something logged in the software. I have known some (Landi Renzo for example) to beep continually after seeing a low pressure event. I also know the ones I currently use (KME Nevo) beep if set to petrol operation when you first start the car. They don't usually beep on removing the power/keys though. Might be down to some of your settings?

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