Jaguar xf 3l petrol conversion

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minimutly
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Jaguar xf 3l petrol conversion

#1 Post by minimutly » Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:58 pm

So after 6 years on my zt 190 I will be removing the kit and fitting it on the Ford engined xf. Obvious questions are around the size of the BRC bits - orange injectors were replaced 6 months ago to try and solve a cold starting problem, as was the diaphragm in the vaporiser. I also have a new liquid solenoid and filter.
The zt was 190 bhp, the kit was a BRC sequent Plug &Drive, the tank was an 80 litre toroid with brc Europa 2 multivalve, vaporiser was a genius mb. I used poly pipe - at the time thinking it would flow better, but the fittings have a smaller dia than copper, so not sure if it helped but I never had any full power problems.
Will the bits all be up to the 248bhp Ford engine? Do I need two feed pipes? Two regulators? Higher presure setting? Will I get enough gas out of the multivalve?
Finally, not sure if the Ford engine is even firing (it growls more than the kv6 did), does it matter? Oops, finally finally, I think I will need a valve saving kit - which one should I get?
I will do some searching, but any suggestions appreciated. One thing I do recall, the jag needs a petrol return to the tank - someone (tubbs?) suggested inserting a pipe in the filler neck?

minimutly
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Re: Jaguar xf 3l petrol conversion

#2 Post by minimutly » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:34 pm

Hmmm, found info on petrol return - yes it is needed. Genius 1500 vaporiser apparently only good for 188bhp:( so I need a bigger vaporiser.
Can't find much on wet pipe diameters vs power.

minimutly
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Re: Jaguar xf 3l petrol conversion

#3 Post by minimutly » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:34 pm

Can anyone please suggest a vaporiser up to supplying a 248bhp (on petrol) v6? Preferably one compatible with the BRC sequent ecu I have. Are Tinley tech likely to know?
Perhaps I should post this in the "having problems" section.

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Re: Jaguar xf 3l petrol conversion

#4 Post by Brian_H » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:24 pm

Tinley Tech would be able to recommend something suitable. There isn't any compatibility to worry about, the only electronics are the solenoid and a temperature sensor on the vapouriser. Long as you buy one for an injection system it won't matter what manufacturer it is. Simon will probabbly give you an answer of something suitable if he sees your post with any luck.

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Re: Jaguar xf 3l petrol conversion

#5 Post by LPGC » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:03 am

You didn't say the year of the Jag but it will most likely need a petrol return. IIrc either the 2.5 or 3.0 before around 2002 didn't need one, all the others do. You can buy electronic fuel pressure regulators but the problems with them are that (a) they can cause the fuel pump to fail early and (b) they don't work as well as a proper (physical) fuel return, with electronic emulation the petrol ECU may still occasionally interpret the fuel pressure signal as being faulty. The filler neck can be a good place to fit the fuel return pipe, on some Jags it's possible to access the fuel pump and engine feed pipe through an access panel under the rear seat in which case the take-off (T) for the fuel return can be connected to the engine feed pipe here and there might be space for the solenoid etc. You can even drill high in a plastic tank (if the tank is low enough on petrol), tap the hole and screw in a spud using something like Tigerseal on the threads.. handy if you can fit the complete fuel return working only through an access panel under the rear seat (don't remember if possible on the XF, you'll have to have a look!).

MB usually points to reducer pressure in millibar, so a 1500MB BRC reducer will usually be pre-set to 1.5 bar... but BRC reducer pressure can be adjusted in the usual (allen key) way after removing a rubber blank/grommet to access the allen key socket. The big BRC Genius Max reducer would handle the 3L engine no probs, or you could fit a second reducer of the same type as your existing one, or in fact you could fit any type of reducer as a second reducer. I believe the BRC temp sender isn't the usual generic spec, not an issue if you have at least one BRC spec reducer fitted (you'd just connect to that reducer's temp sender) but if you fit a none BRC reducer on it's own you may have to fit a BRC electrical spec temp sender (doesn't have to be BRC but same electrical spec, just that BRC temp sensders are unlikely to fit other make reducers). The Ford has comparatively big flow petrol injectors for the size/power of the engine but then so too does the MG - when choosing gas injector / pressure combinations it's a good idea to not only go on the usual manufacturer / supplier advice of X nozzle and Y pressure to suit Z bhp per cylinder but to also consider the petrol injector versus bhp per cylinder spec, this avoids having a multiplier that is too low (or more likely too high) and gives best results. The orange injectors were probably chosen on the usual advice (bhp per cylinder) so for low multiplier pressure may be high (1.5 bar is already quite high by modern standards). Not all reducers will even adjust up to 1.5 bar... fitting another BRC reducer (which will adjust to above 1.5 bar and be pressure stable at that pressure) may be a good idea. An MJExtra reducer would be good but doesn't have anywhere to fit a different type temp sender. Maybe a remote inline (in rubber water pipe) temp sender would be an idea.

What diameter polypipe? You'd probably be fine even with the narrow 6mm copper equivalent, multivalve flow won't be a problem.

Ford engine is a 60deg V6 and even firing. Will need a lube system, a standard vacuum type drip feed lube will do but the engine has 2 throttle bodies so the lube feed needs splitting to feed 2 jets (else 3 cylinders may get a lot more lube than the other 3 cylinders), you can split the feed using an additional lube (narrow) jet from the supplier and a vacuum T. Can be plug fussy but the manufacturer recommended plugs give good results.
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minimutly
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Re: Jaguar xf 3l petrol conversion

#6 Post by minimutly » Sat Feb 01, 2020 9:50 am

Very grateful for the replies, it ties in with the limited amount of research I've been able to do so far.
The jag is an 08 xf. I have two brc reducers, one needs a diaphragm but maybe the answer to that issue.
I had consigned to having a fuel return, but does it need a solenoid, i was thinking the pump should heve enough spare capacity to let it run all the time? I see tinley tech do a kit, as well as just the solenoids so no worries if I have to fit one.
Copper pipe it will be then, and if my existing tank will fit I may use it, but would like to go bigger if possible, 80 litre takes 60 to the stop usually - is this a little low? I did spend some time way back "adjusting" the float valve.
Is there anything else? Dunno - oh injectors, I will try the ones I have, they are new, and shouldn't be too far out of their comfort zone - but how will I know? Idle opening times will tell me something I guess.
Thanks again for the benefit of your experience.

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Re: Jaguar xf 3l petrol conversion

#7 Post by DariusVargas » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:01 pm

Hey!
Anything new on the fuel return?
I have a 2003 2.5v6 s type and apparently it doesnt have a factory one. So now when running lpg the pressure on the fuel pump goes high and the pump is stopped leaving my engine to stall when switching back to petrol.
It needs a fuel return so the pump can pump and still keep the pressure constant.
Thanks a million!

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Re: Jaguar xf 3l petrol conversion

#8 Post by Fox vehicles » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:58 pm

Hi, there is quite a lot of discussion on fuel returns v electronic emulators, the fuel return pipe will work every time, some emulators can be a pain, some work very well. The fuel return pipe will require a solenoid, the tinley tech kit has all the parts you would need, as Simon said already it is a lot neater if you can do it all at the top of the tank/pump/sender unit. You need a 0.8mm restriction in the return hose for it to work correctly (supplied in the tinley kit)
As for pipes, i would stick with the polyflex, it is a lot easier to use than copper. We generally say that 6mm copper is fine up to 250bhp, (providing it isn't turbo or supercharged, then 8mm is required) 6mm copper is 4mm internal, so 6mm polyflex, Faro, for example is bigger internally than that, however, I would use 8mm Faro, it's just as easy to fit and costs about the same so why not. The mb1500 has a 8mm inlet as standard so makes sense to keep it 8mm. If you have two of these then you will be fine and the orange injectors are correct for your engine, yellows would be too big. Orange BRC will bottom out at about 2.3-2.5 milliseconds so if during calibration you are at this number reducer the pressure slightly and re-calibrate.
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