Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mixer?

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CNG
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Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mixer?

#1 Post by CNG » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:51 am

I've an old 4 cyl 1960s Land-rover running a simple as it gets Mixer system with a power-valve. No Lambda, nothing. Now has an electronic dizzy, but , in terms of sophistication, that's about it.

As part of a rebuild I'm reckoning on fitting what looks like the perfect solution. Give it an o2 and Epoka, does away with a mixer / stepper etc:

http://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/lpg-kits/e ... o-190-bhp/

The blurb goes:

This is an alternative to the mixer-style induction systems. The standard kit comes with all components for the front-end, including poly pipe from the tank and Valtek type-30 injectors. An upgrade to high-performance Valtek type-34 injectors is an option. It does not include a lambda probe or a USB lead. You will need an AEB-type lead for connection to a PC in order to set up the system. If your engine does not have a lambda probe, we recommend fitting one.


Only I'm not hearing mention of this anywhere, as being done by anyone. Google 'Epoka' and you'll find nothing. Has anyone rigged a car with anything like this? Is there anythign I need to know to get it right?

Gilbertd
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Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

#2 Post by Gilbertd » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:09 pm

Looks good to me. I assume it batch fires the injectors rather than being sequential, much like the earlier 14CUX does on the Classic Range Rover and V8 Defender, so would just need a feed from the ignition coil. It will know the revs so will fire the injectors once per firing stroke with the lambda as a check on fuelling.
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

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LPGC
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Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

#3 Post by LPGC » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:07 pm

I'm not sure when that was listed, the last time I checked these systems ran open loop, could show lambda on screen but not react to lambda to run closed loop. An open loop version has been listed by TT for years.

Of course similar pulsed injection systems that could run on carb vehicles were common years ago and did run closed loop... These were the 'pre-N' AEB pulsed injection systems (and similar) that look very similar to a modern slave system with all the same components... the main difference being that they don't work as a slave to the petrol system, this is like re-introducing those systems.

They can be a bit tricky to set up if you're unfamiliar because the map shape is very different to the usual modern/slave map shape, you have to define the underlying map shape as you would if designing a petrol injection map. They do run group injection rather than sequential (no cam sensor on carb engines), can deliver good results.

Even before the 'pre-N' systems there were systems like Omegas and Etagas that did much the same only metered gas to nozzles continuously rather than in pulses. The main advantage to all of these systems over a mixer back when they were first introduced was that they inject gas close to the port to avoid backfires. These days sequential slave systems are the norm (has to be that way) and there isn't much we can't convert using either a sequential slave system or a mixer but these are still handy to have available, probably most useful on KJetronic engines and throttle body/carb engines where space is tight for fitting a mixer. They could be put to work on direct injection engines if only direct petrol injectors didn't break without a bit of petrol flowing through them and direct injection engines didn't use wide band lambda probes (could fit a second narrow band probe for these systems but there's nothing available yet to emulate wide band probes to prevent the petrol ECU throwing codes and 'limiting performance').

Simon
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Gilbertd
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Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

#4 Post by Gilbertd » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:24 pm

The suggestion from TT that it doesn't need a lambda sensor but they recommend fitting one suggests to me that it can run open loop but will run closed loop if one is fitted. I'd think your best bet would be to give them a bell and ask, they don't bite (if they don't see this and post the answer on here first).
'96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
'93 Range Rover 4.2 LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
'98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, Singlepoint AEB Leo, my daily motor
'97 Range Rover 4.0SE, eGas multipoint, a project.....

Proud to be a member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

LPGC
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Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

#5 Post by LPGC » Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:03 pm

Would agree but I think the listing had the same suggestion even when they could only run open loop and could be that TT suggest fitting a lambda purely as a calibration aid.
Last edited by LPGC on Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
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http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
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07816237240

CNG
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Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

#6 Post by CNG » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:42 am

I like the look of this Epoka kit stuff, the only alternative to Epoka seems to be a closed loop mixer system with a BLOS thrown on the end. Although I now understand there is a BLOS which includes a stepper, which I assume gets it's info via an O2.

With either approach, I still need an O2. If I'm going to run open-loop a standard BLOS looks the way around a mixer.

My concern, if you pros are unaware of it, with the Epoka system, I get the impression I'd be the guinea-pig. I assume TT are putting their own Epoka name on it. I'd like to know what it is under the sticker, so info from those that have fitted 'same' can be found.

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Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

#7 Post by Brian_H » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:27 pm

If you download the software (from them) it defaults to Italian, and only seems to show the Epoka branding. So it may be some sort of AEB hardware with a badge on (given it uses their connection lead and it comes from the right country, though thats no guarantee).

Theres a couple of instances of it popping up elsewhere > https://www.powerjetlpi.it/prodotti/sistema-epoka I'd suspect Tinley are the uk distributor for them.

I'd suggest you call them and ask? Given its had no response here or anywhere else either it just works, or noone has posted with any issues with the mentioned brand. But then you rarely see many questions about single point stuff here anymore, and its the same sort of vehicles you'd be looking to fit it to.

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Re: Wow! Too good to be True? Convert from Carbs with No Mix

#8 Post by classicswede » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:58 pm

I spoke to the designer a few years ago. He sounded like they had the system nailed for working on carb engines. I'm not certain it will give an advantage over a mixer other than backfire aspect. I have used a couple of standalone systems before and results have not been as good as a mixer :(


Microsquirt could be worth considering
http://www.classicswede.com/
http://www.classicswede.co.uk/LPG/cat17 ... 10800.aspx

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07824887160

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