The Temptress

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LPGC
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Re: The Temptress

#21 Post by LPGC » Sun May 30, 2021 1:11 pm

Probably a case of suck it and see with the mixers, I haven't converted this model of engine as standard nevermind when it's been modded with a turbo. As a rule of thumb longer mixers tend to give better airflow to signal linearity. Is this going to be suck through or blow through (would imagine suck through)?

A potential problem with the 3 way switch setup is that when one tank is empty and you switch on the full tank there will be some flow of gas from the other tank to the empty tank and this can mean a lack of flow to the reducer until tank pressures have balanced. Can get around that by for example fitting a none return T between tank outlets and the reducer.
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robertXX
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Re: The Temptress

#22 Post by robertXX » Sun May 30, 2021 3:26 pm

BlOw through Simon, I have a r90 with the turbo version stub on the back. Re tanks. I wA going to switch off tank 1 solenoid so back flow won't occur ?
"The Temptress" thread..... https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/215234/temptress
'Medusa" thread .....https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/threads/medusa.206057/

LPGC
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Re: The Temptress

#23 Post by LPGC » Sun May 30, 2021 4:43 pm

I know you'd be switching off the solenoid on the empty tank but solenoids are designed to allow back flow, tanks have headroom but the lines don't.

An empty tank will have less pressure than a full tank, especially if also cooler due to recently drawing gas from it. If solenoid on full tank is opened at that point there is backflow until the empty tank has same pressure as the full tank less the pressure it takes to open the plunger on the solenoid of the empty tank... It will still usually push a few litres into the empty tank during which it can cause flow problems to the reducer.
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
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robertXX
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Re: The Temptress

#24 Post by robertXX » Sun May 30, 2021 7:39 pm

oh pox! thats a shame ,i thought they were on or off .


Woof ! ,they are not cheap...


https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/brc-t-piece-w ... two-tanks/


bit better ..

https://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/lpg-parts ... rn-t-8-mm/
"The Temptress" thread..... https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/215234/temptress
'Medusa" thread .....https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/threads/medusa.206057/

CNG
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Re: The Temptress

#25 Post by CNG » Mon May 31, 2021 6:35 pm

Woof ! ,they are not cheap...
They're not. Wow... In my world that'd have to be in stainless and pressure-rated to 300Bar with Swagelok or Parker stamps on there, and no alternative but to stump for £450. You're lucky with £30.

I love this project, your fabrication skills are 'other worldly'.

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Re: The Temptress

#26 Post by LPGC » Mon May 31, 2021 6:54 pm

CNG wrote:
Mon May 31, 2021 6:35 pm
I love this project, your fabrication skills are 'other worldly'.
You should definitely see some of Rob's other threads!
Full time LPG installer
Servicing / Diagnostics / Repairs to all systems / DIY conversion kits supplied with thorough tech support
Mid Yorkshire
2 miles A1, 8 miles M62,
http://www.Lpgc.co.uk
Twitter https://twitter.com/AutogasSimon
07816237240

CNG
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Re: The Temptress

#27 Post by CNG » Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:31 pm

I've just had a gander. Ahem... yes quite a thing.

What appeals to me is the pure off-centre theme to this. Robert, in my mind you've made things ever better with your focus on fuelling. It's very clear you expect to drive the thing. A large element of the classic car set doesn't drive them. It seems too many are fully signed-up members of the beard-set, to a man able to tell you the part number for his brake master-cylinder. All very well i suppose, only for me classics are workaday examples driven in February as well as August Bank Holiday.

I don't know about you, I get to car events, and after the first five minutes, I'm left thinking: "Oh no, er... do we have to... not another Ferrari?". Lovely things and all that, but I finish looking at the kind of stuff that you'd see once. Yours is set to be one - something unusual, left-field, something being used. It's these cars I leave those events with memories of.
Keep it up,

robertXX
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Re: The Temptress

#28 Post by robertXX » Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:05 pm

Absolutely agree CNG ,

here's my last project at the shops getting the weekly food ....


Image


Image
"The Temptress" thread..... https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/215234/temptress
'Medusa" thread .....https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/threads/medusa.206057/

robertXX
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Re: The Temptress

#29 Post by robertXX » Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:44 pm

well! would you believe it ,

i was in mid house move at christmas time , but then a deed related problem occured , and i am still stuck in limbo 6 months later ,waiting for the bloody halifax to approve a deed change ,anyrdup , i put the two good r90's in a box , and stored it at a friends garage , and stuff me , i cannot find it ...............!

My only turbo type r90 , lost .


so i have another r90 , that i can tak to pieces check out , and then weld a fitting on the back for the turbo presure balance .but ,basically ,frustrating.



in other news , the plastic insert mixer(36mm insert) is on the welded manifold which is now on the car in design mode ..

Image


which, with this big rubber addition is now named,

"the squid ".




regards
robert
"The Temptress" thread..... https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/215234/temptress
'Medusa" thread .....https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/threads/medusa.206057/

CNG
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Re: The Temptress

#30 Post by CNG » Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:28 pm

I run the rarer R89 methane model, but the R90 is dirt cheap on eBay, it's only fellow crackpots that run single-point these days. Provided you're in no hurry, you should have no issue getting one. I buy that sort of thing 'used' when I see them cheap. If you really are struggling I've one or two in the shed somewhere. Suspect it'll need a rebuild, kits are cheap. From memory, one of the plastic elbows is iffy. But they're a fiver on eBay.
Yours for £45 landed.

I'm seeing a theme... somehow sat in Tesco's car-park it's not really what you're supposed to do - you've no wish to follow the herd have you? Any road, it amuses me.

robertXX
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Re: The Temptress

#31 Post by robertXX » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:26 am

Did yuo miss this bit CNG ;)


"so i have another r90 , that i can take to pieces check out , and then weld a fitting on the back for the turbo pressure balance .but ,basically ,frustrating."


but thank you for the offer :)

oh and palllease ...waitrose old chap ;)
"The Temptress" thread..... https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/215234/temptress
'Medusa" thread .....https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/threads/medusa.206057/

CNG
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Re: The Temptress

#32 Post by CNG » Sat Jun 05, 2021 5:08 pm

Did yuo miss this bit CNG
Yes and no, and I was left a little confused. The offer, no problem, I would have been happy to say I had a hand in getting this on HM's highway.
oh and palllease ...waitrose old chap
Well it did look a little, er un..., but I wasn't going to say.
The more I look at your first pic in this thread, the more I come down to the idea, yours requires your lightest, deftest touch. Now it's special. One false move and it'd be too easy, to lose all you have. It'd just be the kinda' thing you'd expect in the line at your village fete, with the umpteen Beetles, Farinas, MGBs and dare I say this... yawn, Land-rovers? Oh and of course, there's always an E-Type.

robertXX
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Re: The Temptress

#33 Post by robertXX » Mon Jun 07, 2021 8:08 pm

i managed to pop a couple of hours into the old girl today ...oh..wait , that sounds wrong .

what i meant was i worked on the car .

Now , the r90 vapouriser normally has a back like this ..


Image


there is a huge rubber diaphragm behind it , and that hole makes sure the pressure on one side is balanced by atmospheric pressure on other .then when the mixer ring crated a slight vacuum the diaphragm moves to open the gas flow valve .

all well and good when not using boost , but , with boost in the inlet , the diaphragm would move towards the back plate , and shut off the valve .

so , with a turbo version you seal the back plate , and have a pipe from boost to the stub mounted in that hole ,or , you would if you had not lost your one and only turbo type r90 !


so i made one. i welded a stamp sized bit of metal in the rectangular hole under the mounting flange , and put a threaded fitting in the hole like so..


Image


this went well and i managed not to warp the lid or "dish" ,as veronica calls it .


then made a bracket out of stainless plate ..

Image


this serves 2 puposes ,one is to support the reducer , the other is to remind me of how blunt all my drills are .

on the reducer ..


Image

fits in the wing like so ..

Image



and reducer in place ..

Image



i may make a support strut ,there seems a lack of stiffness in the inner wing area , but i think this is just age .


regards
robert.
"The Temptress" thread..... https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/215234/temptress
'Medusa" thread .....https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/threads/medusa.206057/

robertXX
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Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:45 am

Re: The Temptress

#34 Post by robertXX » Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:35 am

Little bit of progress on the multivalve front .

Image

its unfortunately lacking its coil..

Image


so being super duper skint ,i have to find a cheap 12mm coil , but i did find a level sender , and some screws to hold it in , and it seems to work ,


Image


looks like i have about a 1/3rd tank full in there .

i have started researching the loenardo/aeb 175 thing , i as confused because i could not see a way to use the level switch for the ign signal to open the valves , but reading this ..


https://hybridsupply.de/wp-content/uploads/hsd_9363.pdf



it looks like the leo does the switching and the dash switch simply does level and fuel selection . also it appears i can start on lpg , like i normally do by flicking the switch ..er.. i think ..!



i am quite excited about playing with this leo thing , , then maybe switching to injection one day , and seeing if its more economical .



regards
robert
"The Temptress" thread..... https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/215234/temptress
'Medusa" thread .....https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/threads/medusa.206057/

Gilbertd
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Re: The Temptress

#35 Post by Gilbertd » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:15 am

CNG wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:28 pm
I run the rarer R89 methane model, but the R90 is dirt cheap on eBay, it's only fellow crackpots that run single-point these days.
Who are you calling a crackpot? I took one of my two singlepoint, AEB175 equipped, V8 range Rovers for MoT a couple of weeks ago. Tester was looking at the R90E and mixer sitting there and reminiscing about working on some fleet vehicles years ago. I told him it was old tech these days and everyone says the far more complex multipoint injection systems are much more efficient. He pointed at the 0.02% CO and 12ppm HC figures he'd just got on his exhaust gas analyser and said, you ain't going to get much more efficient than that......
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

robertXX
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Re: The Temptress

#36 Post by robertXX » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:22 am

had he forgotten to put the sniffer in the zorst gilbert ? ;) seriously though that is amazingly clean running . is that with stock v8 ignition timing ?
"The Temptress" thread..... https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/215234/temptress
'Medusa" thread .....https://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/threads/medusa.206057/

Gilbertd
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Location: Peterborough

Re: The Temptress

#37 Post by Gilbertd » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:48 am

robertXX wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:35 am
it looks like the leo does the switching and the dash switch simply does level and fuel selection . also it appears i can start on lpg , like i normally do by flicking the switch ..er.. i think ..!
Leo manual is here on my Google Drive https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T6Nuyf ... sp=sharing (English from page 20). Yes, the switch gives you the option of which fuel you want to run on and gives a row of LEDs to show approximately how much gas it thinks you may have in the tank (I can get 200+ miles on a full tank but after anything over 100 miles it tells me the tank is empty). You set changeover using the software so it will change over at set revs (falling or rising) or to start on LPG. Both mine are set to change over on falling revs at 1,100 rpm so they start on petrol, blip the throttle and they change over as the revs fall back past 1,100. That way you just leave the switch in the LPG position all the time. Alternatively, if you have it set like this but want it to start on gas, you turn the ignition on, move the switch to petrol then back to gas and it will then start on gas.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

Gilbertd
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Posts: 8678
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:00 am
Location: Peterborough

Re: The Temptress

#38 Post by Gilbertd » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:54 am

robertXX wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:22 am
had he forgotten to put the sniffer in the zorst gilbert ? ;) seriously though that is amazingly clean running . is that with stock v8 ignition timing ?
Completely bog standard GEMS 4.6 V8, with 180,000 on the clock, fairly new spark plugs and air filter if that made any difference. I must admit I was surprised, my other daily use one usually runs at around 0.1% CO and 60 ish ppm HC no matter what I do to it. Both are running the same 34mm mixer, R90E and Leonardo controller. Only difference is my daily has an additional 0-1V Zirconia lambda sensor in one downpipe purely for the Leo while the other one is using one of the 5-0V Titania lambda sensors that feed the petrol system.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

CNG
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Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:54 pm

Re: The Temptress

#39 Post by CNG » Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:18 pm

Gilbertd wrote:
Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:15 am
CNG wrote:
Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:28 pm
I run the rarer R89 methane model, but the R90 is dirt cheap on eBay, it's only fellow crackpots that run single-point these days.
Who are you calling a crackpot? I took one of my two singlepoint, AEB175 equipped, V8 range Rovers for MoT a couple of weeks ago. Tester was looking at the R90E and mixer sitting there and reminiscing about working on some fleet vehicles years ago. I told him it was old tech these days and everyone says the far more complex multipoint injection systems are much more efficient. He pointed at the 0.02% CO and 12ppm HC figures he'd just got on his exhaust gas analyser and said, you ain't going to get much more efficient than that......
Well maybe I have all it all wrong... I thought it was only Robert and yours truly? When I ring LPGshop or Tinley and brazen it out with requests for products which had peak sales in the 90s, I can audibly hear the intake of breath followed by exasperation. Perhaps we should shout ever louder about old tech? I mean, it's hardly what we're supposed to be doing is it? Gotta say my BLOS set-up is something I've come to swear by. There can't be many die-hards for old tosh, hence best 'fess up and accept your fate.

Gilbertd
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Location: Peterborough

Re: The Temptress

#40 Post by Gilbertd » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:22 pm

About 6 years ago I drilled and tapped my inlet manifold and put plugs in ready to fit nozzles for when I decided to 'upgrade' it to a multipoint but never have. I've even got a complete, working, multipoint system taken off another Range Rover but why would I want to? The Leo connects to an additional stand alone lambda sensor in one downpipe so if the petrol system packs up, it'll still run perfectly on gas. Same the other way round as I've effectively got two separate stand alone fuel systems. The only thing common to both fuel systems is the TPS so I've got a spare one in the boot. I can make it start and run on either fuel and I use about £20 of petrol every 6 months or so. With fuel metering like I'm getting, how can it be improved? I wouldn't fit a Blos though, far too complex and just something else to go wrong and need tweaking. In 11 years and 230,000 miles, I've used 3 stand alone lambda sensors and replaced the original R90E for a new one. I plug the computer in to check the settings probably no more often than once a year.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

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