Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

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Jonnydipp
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Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#1 Post by Jonnydipp » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:47 pm

Hi All

So I just got myself an old 2002 duel fuel Vauxhall combo van with a Millbrook conversion on it.
I filled up the lpg tank and got just over 50litre in it' so guess it was empty,
my questions are:
When I switch to lpg should the petrol gauge change to read the gas level? mine doesn't?

also When I switch to lpg the light on the switch just flashes and no noises can be heard? I don't think its actually switching?
I've had a good look around but cant find any fuses does anyone know where the lpg system fuses could be located?
is there anyway of getting fault codes out of the lpg system?

sorry for all the question any help would be great
cheers

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#2 Post by LPGC » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:59 pm

You're right, it won't be running on gas, the flashing light on the switch will reflect a problem with the LPG system.

The problem could be many things but is unlikely a fuse.

Best case scenario is probably that the reducer output pressure has become too low due to the spring inside the reducer weakening over the years. Even if this is the case it is a job best left to the few of us who know what we're doing with the factory fitted systems... and the few of us doesn't include most installers.
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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#3 Post by Jonnydipp » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:35 pm

Thanks for the reply,
Would that mean a new reducer? Or is it a servicable unit, Sounds like it could be an expensive repair!

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#4 Post by LPGC » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:29 pm

The reducer is the most likely bit to be at fault on these systems as they age and for the reason I said... But your problem is by no means definitely due to the reducer, there are other things that can go wrong.

The fault I mentioned could be put right just by turning the reducer's pressure setting control by using an Allen key. But just putting the pressure right wouldn't cure the symptoms - after putting the pressure right the LPG system's own set of fuel trims (not the petrol system fuel trims) have got to be relearned. During the re-learn process if lambda voltage hangs low or high for more than about 5 seconds the system reverts to fault mode so refuses to run on LPG. There are various fuel trims for various combinations of rpm and engine load, reducer pressure needs to be set to suit all the fuel trim ranges. When I fix the type of problem I mention I connect a multimeter to lambda and if it seems lambda voltage isn't going to flick after (say) 3.5 seconds I move my foot quickly on the throttle to ensure fuel trim range is shifted and the 5 second countdown is reset. But first you've got to clear the error code, on this type of factory system you can usually do that just by disconnecting the battery for 10mins.

Note again that this is only one potential problem, there could certainly be a different problem... but pressure (due to weak spring) is probably the most common problem. If you mess with pressure and something else is the real problem, even if you fix the real problem the light will still flash because you'll have made pressure incorrect.
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Brian_H
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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#5 Post by Brian_H » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:42 pm

You won't get a new reducer now, but the rebuild kits are available for about £30. They are a pain to put together, and on a unit approaching 18 years old, you are likely to find something will break taking it apart or a bolt will not want to move. But if its flashing, it may be trying to tell you an error code.

Don't mess with it blindly as you will introduce more problems to solve later, start by checking if you have errors logged, I will post another reply with the instructions that MAY help on that score after this one, This will be a copy and paste job from a pdf file that was available here some time ago from PJPJ, There are several odd bits of translation from Dutch, but you should be able to follow it with any luck as far as getting fault codes is concerned.

Do you know if its the type of system with injectors (GSI) or a metering head (EGI)? Photos would help on that point if your not sure. Gauge wise I think all the Vauxhall systems used the petrol gauge, but this isn't the case with the Ford ones (which had a gauge on the switch typical of a multipoint system you would get now).

I've got a load of other info but its in a bit of a mess, I will see if I can get it available in a way you can obtain it.

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#6 Post by Brian_H » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:43 pm

Read out diagnostic system for Koltec EGI / GSI.
De EGI LPG installation from Koltec has a self diagnostic-system which all disturbances will
be storages in its memory for a time.
When you have a problem whit the LPG installation, the first you have to do is read out this
memory.
This prevents expensive repairs, because the most auto mechanicals don’t have knowledge for
LPG installations.
Read out this memory is not difficult, and you don’t need expensive tools.
Behind de switch for choosing LPG / petrol is a grey wire whit a connector which is not
connected.
This wire has to be extended whit a other wire and connected whit the earth (chassis) of the
car.
Then you turn on the car key till all light bulbs in the dashboard go on all but don’t start the
engine.
The light bulb in the LPG/petrol switch goes flashing now.
This flashing is the giving the disturbances if there are.
Example1: 1x flashing, waiting a moment and then 2x flashing behind each other is code 12 =
no turning signal for the engine.
Note: This code is correct because we didn’t start the engine.(just at older types > 1995)
Example2: 4x flashing, waiting a moment and then 5x flashing behind each other is code 45 =
Gas mixture to rich.
Note: this code is coming often if the Vaporiser needs revision.
The diaphragms leaking and the Vaporiser/ pressure regulator don’t working well.
Every code will be given 3 times after each other before given a next code.
Codes which can be given:
Code 12 No turning signal for the engine (Vaporiser whitout temperature sensor)
(older type >1995)
Code 13 No Lambda sondesignal (lambdasonde or wiring is damaged)
Code 14 Temperature sensor signal to high.
(Vaporiser whit temperature sensor)(newer type 1995>)
Code 15 Temperature sensor signal to low.
(Vaporiser whit temperature sensor)(newer type 1995>)
Code 21 TPS-signal to high.(TPS = Throttle Position Sensor)
Code 22 TPS-signal to low.
Code 33 MAP-sensor signal to high.
Code 34 MAP-sensor signal to low.
Code 43 Divider/regulator don’t working.
Code 45 Gas mixture to rich.(light bulb in switch is flashing by driving the car)
When the gas mixture is to poor, the diagnose system gives no signal because it is thinking
the tank is (almost) empty.(light bulb in switch is flashing by driving the car)
If this is this is take a longer time, the system goes automatically to petrol run.
If the system is giving no disturbance code, and the light bulb in the switch doesn’t flash by
driving the car, the pressures don’t need to be checked.

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#7 Post by Brian_H » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:55 pm

Info (including the above) is hopefully available on this link to you
https://drive.google.com/open?id=10kS5W ... jAJ-jljxhu

It wouldn't be a bad idea if Simon is close to you, to get him to have a look over it to see if its something easy/cheap to fix and to give it a quick check over. I wouldn't recommend going down the route of replacing any of the expensive bits of the system given its age (some of the bits are easily available and fairly inexpensive, others not so, injectors if you have that type of system are a particular difficulty) but you could swap the front end over if it came to it.

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#8 Post by Jonnydipp » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:58 am

Thank you all for the the really useful info,
Think i will start by trying to retreave any codes from the system, I'll will try and locate this grey wire when im back in the workshop monday, its like old school diagnostics with blink codes!
Are there any lpg pros near me? Crowborough East Sussex.
Thanks again
will let you know how I get on

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#9 Post by Brian_H » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:34 pm

There are only 2 active installers on this forum that post - Simon (LPGC) in this thread already, and Classicsweede, though haven't seen the later post for some time now, and hes not been on in nearly a month.

There will be installers somewhere closer to you, but they may be more inclined to replace the front end than try fixing it unless its something fairly obvious - The comment earlier on in the thread by Simon is fair, few know what they are doing with the factory fit systems. If you want someone to look at it, Simon is a good bet, but hes up in Yorkshire.

Also worth checking, somewhere near or on the vapouriser (typically this will be a unit around the size of an alternator with necam or Koltec printed on it, and usually a model of VG392 visible on it) there should be a temperature sensor. Check its there, and connected. From memory of mine, it would take a few seconds before switching over from cold, as it waited to see a suitable temperature. Equally check there is actually coolant getting to the vapouriser (it should be fed from the heater circuit, but its possible its been disconnected if it started leaking at some point or could be airlocked, though the factory systems don't usually get airlocked as the vapouriser tends to be low down, if its fed from the heater core this may have got cut off if the coolant had been leaking at some point previously and in need of attention. It should get hot to the touch once the car has warmed up)

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#10 Post by Jonnydipp » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:58 pm

Thanks Brian_H for that info
Sounds as if Simon might be a tad far away from me then for him to take a look.
Ill have a look around at the system tommorrow and see what i can see/work out, I have noticed that it doesnt get up to temp very well on the gauge but the heater is good, I have a thermostat to fit I wonder if that might help?
I was out in the van today and switched the lpg on to have an ever hopeful try and didnt turn it off, when i tried to start it again later I did hear a click and it didnt start, switched it off and it started fine, so it sounds like somethings in the system working,
Ill hopefully get the codes out tomorrow and see.
Thanks again

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#11 Post by DodgeRover1 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:40 pm

Hi, I had a factory fit 55 plate Combo that was serviced by Arun Autogas, I think they are still going under a slightly different name. It might be worth giving them a call and seeing if they are familiar with the system still

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#12 Post by Jonnydipp » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:24 pm

Hi, only managed a quick look at the van today as I smelt gas!! :shock: and had a busy day.
Put it on the ramp to find I had a leaking filler pipe, looked like it was corroded with a pin hole in it, so I put it back outside, guessing I need to keep gas in the system before I can get it working!

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#13 Post by Brian_H » Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:33 pm

Not too surprising with a vehicle of that age - Outside is obviously the place for it until you have it sorted. If its on the filler, provided the valve works, it will only vent whats in the filler pipe itself and not the whole tank. But obviously we can't see exactly what you can. The factory fit kit I've seen, generally uses JIC hose which if you can measure the right length of it is fairly easy to replace if needed. Though it may be copper given you say its corroded like that.

Probably also work saying the gauge on the tank should show you how much gas is in it (inside the gas tight box if its an internal tank, external tank you may be able to see it or it may be covered, not sure what you'd have on a Van but suspect its underneath?). Even if the sender doesn't work (and I have a feeling until it actually switches to run on gas it will show the petrol level anyway) then you should be able to see the level on the tank itself.

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Re: Newbie alert!! 2002 vauxhall combo question

#14 Post by LPGC » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:45 pm

The fuel gauge on the dash will show LPG contents when there is 12v to the solenoid wires, the 2 solenoids are just wired in parallel.

As long as the one way valve on the tank works properly won't lose all the gas from the tank via the filler pipe if it leaks. Would usually expect the one way valve on a factory install to work but a lot of aftermarket 4 hole filler valves don't work as installers crush the internals by over-torquing on assembly.
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