Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic port?

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cheeky2
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Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic port?

#1 Post by cheeky2 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:39 pm

I have a factory fitted lpg done around 160k and the lpg will not switch on!

I have been reading through various posts about this model and have found out that it is a Koltec unit with a VG392 vaporiser.
I am after locating the 4 wire plug with the grey wire for reading the diagnostic fault codes so that i can locate the issue with it. Some i have read are inside the lpg switch however not there! Others i read are in the battery box though i cannot find it there either!
So i am stumped at the moment for the connector. I have read out the obd with no faults showing as it runs fine on petrol.

So anyone with the answer it would be greatfully received so that i can dig deeper into the issues and resolve them :)

Original issue was unit would switch onto lpg only when engine cold and when warmed up it would switch over. Now it will not switch over at all! Previous to this it wouldn't switch over and the flashing lpg led was flashing twice as fast as normal (or roughly twice as fast)!
So if you can help me find the diagnostic port it would be greatfully received.

Thanks :)
Happy Motoring

Brian_H
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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#2 Post by Brian_H » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:33 pm

Any idea which version it actually is? - have a look at this link from PJPJ
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.joyce ... ystem.html

You have two options - one is EGI (will have a distributor somewhere between the pipe that comes up from the vg392 unit and the pipes that goto the inlet manifold - looks like)
Image

The other one has some injectors instead and is known as GSI

I don't think you will find a grey wire on the EGI type (I've never seen one on mine, or the spares I've got left), so if you have that you may be looking for something that isn't there.

One of the common points of failure on these is the 58xx module - Have seen posts on here reporting the problem improves if you remove it, leave it somewhere warm to dry out (airing cupboard or similar) for a couple of days and try it again. Is the light still staying flashing faster than it should (2hz or every 2 seconds is its waiting for a condition to change - either its not seeing the engine run, or empty tank usually, faster would indicate an error) If its doing something else give a description of what and someone here will be able to advise.

cheeky2
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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#3 Post by cheeky2 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:19 pm

Thanks i will have a look tomorrow and see what i can find and get back to you :)
Now armed with this info i will have a look and check out the 58xx module as well.

cheeky2
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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#4 Post by cheeky2 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:26 pm

Finally managed to find the grey wire which was curled underneath the relays :) So i guess the unit is a GSI unit from reading your post. As i have looked to find the picture of the distributor as pictured which it doesn't have.
I have read the code out and it is constantly reading code 12 which i take it is the Vaporiser temperature sensor on the VG392.
Can someone please confirm that the code 12 is the vaporiser temperature sensor?
As a second question what should the rough resistance be across the temperature sensor be so that i can check it?
Obviously the ambient temperature around the unit will make a difference but say for a temperature like today of around 18-22 degrees centigrade.

Thanks :)

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#5 Post by Brian_H » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:38 pm

Code 12 is the end of codes error. Not sure on the resistance, but measure it and see what it says - if its open circuit thats definitely wrong. If you measure with the car completely cold and then once its warmed up post what you find back.

cheeky2
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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#6 Post by cheeky2 » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:07 pm

So on that basis it is showing no errors on the lpg ecu? As i have just been doing some more checking online to see if the code 12 was related to the temperature sensor which clearly it isn't from what you have said.

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#7 Post by Brian_H » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:49 am

Correct as far as I'm aware. So it's waiting to become ready to change. So temp sensor would be a good thing to test. As if it's gone open circuit it will not change until it sees resistance there. Easy to test with a meter. There's a few locations for it. Mine is on the elbow attached to the vg392. Yours may be screwed directly into it.

If you find the link given in pjpj signature on here there is a load of information on his web space I'm sure the fault codes are there as well

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#8 Post by cheeky2 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:38 pm

Yes indeed the temperature sensor is on a elbow and have found it to be working ok. As with engine cold it had a resistance of 2.6K ohms after running for around 5minutes it was 1.58K ohms so i would say its working fine. After monitoring its resistance after switching off the engine it gradually started to creep up its resistance, which what i was expecting to see.
I must say seeing the position of it i didn't realise that the elbow rotated around and before this i removed the Koltec vaporiser from the three mounting points on the frame to get better access! Not really neccessary but thought the sensor was fixed in its position.
Whilst there i checked to see if i was getting 12V on the gas solenoid on the vaporiser, which i wasn't.
I have been reading up as much as i can to get information regarding this lpg conversion and was hoping for a schematic so that i can check the continuity of the wiring for open ccts etc. The closest i could find was for a corsa conversion lpg.
Any thoughts as where to progress from here?
Thanks :)

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#9 Post by Brian_H » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:06 pm

You wont see 12v until it switches or tries to switch. Temp sensor sounds ok. Corsa one should be pretty much the same. Can't easily look now from here.

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#10 Post by cheeky2 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:59 pm

I wasn't expecting 12V on the solenoid but just in case thought whilst it was reasonably accessible i would try. If i was getting 12V then i would have put it down to the gas valve solenoid and progressed along that route of testing it manually. Though thinking about and looking at the schematic of the engine i think it would have stalled or switched back to petrol immediately.

Hopefully later on i will try checking the wiring from the ECU loom for the lpg connections for the temp sensor. My friend also has the same lpg astra so i may swop over a few of the parts to check my components for functionality tomorrow, obviously i will check he has the same gsi conversion!
Will let you know how it goes ...

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#11 Post by pjpj » Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:47 pm

If its not changing over and it's not the temperature sensor and no codes are stored then it is likely to be the 58x module.
Regards

PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE

cheeky2
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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#12 Post by cheeky2 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:01 pm

Thanks :)
Should hopefully know tomorrow morning one way or the other as thats what the first thing i was going to change over as its the easiest accessible unit :)

Any thoughts as to where to get one as I have been looking around on the internet and so far i have seen they are all unavailable or out of stock? I am guessing it will have to be via the Vauxhall dealer.

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#13 Post by Brian_H » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:29 am

Not sure you'd still be able to get them via Vauxhall either, autogas2000 have some other spares, but not the vauxhall 58x module listed, that doesn't mean they can't get them though. But before you try that, remove it and put it somewhere warm and dry for a couple of days and then try it again. If it then works at least you have a good idea of where the problem is.

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#14 Post by Brian_H » Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:35 am

Might be worth checking out Tinleytech - http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/acatalog/GFI__Koltec.html last item on the page but check with them/compare to yours to make sure its right, Autogas2000 list one module but it doesn't appear to be the correct one to me (the one for a transit) - http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/necam-ford ... -442-p.asp

Both actually appear to be the same thing so maybe someone can advise if this the right unit for you?

Have a look at this as well - http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/vauxhall-d ... -474-p.asp - it may be an idea to call them before you order anything though, and I'd recommend you try whats suggested above first to try and isolate the problem if possible.

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#15 Post by cheeky2 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:16 am

These were both the web sites that i looked and found them on the web however both showing unavailable for the unit. I have contacted autogas via email to the availability on saturday though i am going to contact both of them by phone on tuesday if it turns out to be the 58x module for availability.
My unit is identical to the picture on autogas here
http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/vauxhall-d ... -474-p.asp
So i guess it must have been replaced at some time from reading the blurb.

Its unfortunatly raining at the moment so looks like it will be later on this afternoon that i will find out if its the 58x module, as my friend arrived earlier on today with his lpg Astra. Just itching to get it diagnoised and finally resolved :)

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#16 Post by cheeky2 » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:01 pm

I have been hunting around for the 58x module on the 2004 LPG Astra Estate of my friends car without any luck finding it! Fortunatly he has the same lpg conversion. My 58xx module is located next to the LPG ECU on a metal plate on the other side to the battery. Any ideas where it will be on the 2004 Astra?
I will do a search and see if i can find the location on the forum for the 58x module on the 2004 Astra.

I have removed my 58x module and will warm it up for a few days!

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#17 Post by Brian_H » Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:37 pm

If it has one, then tracing the wires from the ecu may give you the answer if you can get to them. Otherwise i don't know. Theres some examples in the photos in the link PJPJ has posted earlier.

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#18 Post by pjpj » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:33 pm

The last one I bought was from Autogas about 4 years ago.

No harm in asking at Vauxhall although it is called something different. Part No. 93182211. It's called the Amplifier Case Signal by Vauxhall. Possibly CCF002.

I believe the 58x module was integrated into the ECU on later models.

You may need to purchase one from Poland, Germany or Holland if all else fails.

Start by speaking to Kees here.

http://109.70.7.106/~verdampere/?page_id=31&lang=en

Have a look for accident damaged write offs aswell. That'll probably be a good one.
Regards

PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE

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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#19 Post by pjpj » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:44 pm

You have checked for codes on your petrol ECU? You can use the pedal method if not.
Regards

PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE

cheeky2
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Re: Astra Estate LPG 1.6 2003 problem locating diagnostic po

#20 Post by cheeky2 » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:07 pm

Tried autogas website who say they stopped getting them new a couple years ago! After asking them regarding replacements they suggested ebay and breakers.
I will try Vauxhall next week and a few scrap yards though being lpg they maybe unfamiliar with these parts!
I have an opcom unit which i have connected to the Astra which is free from any fault codes. I know the opcom kit is good as a programmed a friends extra key for his Astra recently and cleared a fault code.
I have removed unit and placed in a warmer environment (though only having a combi boiler means i don't have an airing cudboard which would have been better).
I will let you know and have come across a multilanguage installation manual for lpg on an Astra H amongst my searching.
It may help other peope so will upload it here. Unfortunatly file size is too big
however if you go here
http://www.pliki.drypa.pl/entry-10f16a5 ... 3bf776.htm
and look for the file 000-855_3.pdf
They appear to have wide selection of manuals for a wide range of Necam LPG installations :)

Also whilst searching i have come across the 58X unit that i believe will be suitable picture attached
partnumber 238002-046 Any thoughts to suitability?

Image
Last edited by cheeky2 on Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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