astra g not switching to lpg

Message
Author
pjpj
Intermediate Member
Posts: 1315
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:16 am
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#21 Post by pjpj » Sat May 30, 2015 9:16 pm

Hey broket,

Check the solenoids, especially the front one for cracked plastic around the coil.

Test each of the solenoids impedance (Resistance) with your multimeter and let us know what they are reading.

If the switch is constantly flashing twice per second and doesn't change to a fast flash it is likely to be one of two things. One is the temperature sensor on the vaporiser. The other is the 58x module but they would usually cause all sorts of running problems before failure, one is hiccuping but this is not solely a sign to say the 58x is faulty.

Test the temp. sensor first off.

Test across the sensor terminals with the wires disconnected with your multimeter. At 0deg. it should read apx. 5000ohm. At 30-40deg it should read apx. 3000ohms. At 90deg it should read 300-500ohms. Basically if you see the impedance reduce as the temperature rises then it should be OK
Regards

PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE

broket
New member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#22 Post by broket » Sun May 31, 2015 11:17 am

Thanks pjpj,

The switchover light flashes once only - very briefly when the ignition is turned on. I removed the 58x yesterday to check the integrity and state of the box/circuitry underneath it. The 58x looks to be new(ish) and the other box of tricks under it seems fine by sight alone. I ran the car for a while with this entire gubbins disconnected to see if it would jolt something into life ;)

Dint work.

I will get out there again as soon as the rain clears to check the sensor and solenoids.

broket
New member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#23 Post by broket » Sun May 31, 2015 12:11 pm

I guess, to get the temperature range I have to run the engine with the brackets undone :(

Looks like I have to do this just to get at the solenoid (I can only see one and can't see any wires - yet) and sensor anyway - drat

pjpj
Intermediate Member
Posts: 1315
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:16 am
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#24 Post by pjpj » Sun May 31, 2015 1:16 pm

Sorry, if it's flashing just once, I would start by testing the relays in the box where the LPG fuses are. Check the coil resistance. Switches have been known to go faulty.

They are not all the same but you could try swapping around those relays that are.
Regards

PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE

pjpj
Intermediate Member
Posts: 1315
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:16 am
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#25 Post by pjpj » Sun May 31, 2015 1:31 pm

Here is a circuit diagram that might help some. It isn't absolutely accurate, certainly the colours are all wrong but it will give you some idea. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.joyce ... iagram.jpg
Regards

PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE

pjpj
Intermediate Member
Posts: 1315
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:16 am
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#26 Post by pjpj » Sun May 31, 2015 1:35 pm

Regards

PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE

broket
New member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#27 Post by broket » Sun May 31, 2015 2:40 pm

That's a great help, thanks a million.

Before I get down and dirty with the solenoids I will test the relays.

Just for future information - I ran the car with the lpg fuses removed and it ran for around 1/4 of a mile and then the engine conked out. I am curious as to why.

Battery is flat now - I had the bluetooth diag running and then went for the pedal test a few times. Then I swapped around the relays. It won't turn over.

doh

Brian_H
Intermediate Member
Posts: 1716
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#28 Post by Brian_H » Sun May 31, 2015 5:31 pm

broket wrote:That's a great help, thanks a million.

Before I get down and dirty with the solenoids I will test the relays.

Just for future information - I ran the car with the lpg fuses removed and it ran for around 1/4 of a mile and then the engine conked out. I am curious as to why.

Battery is flat now - I had the bluetooth diag running and then went for the pedal test a few times. Then I swapped around the relays. It won't turn over.

doh
Is it possible you've not got the petrol pump in the tank operating as it should be? (blocked petrol filter one possibility?) for the engine conking out?

The solenoids you mention there is 2 - one will be on the front end that you've found, the other is on the tank in the boot (under a cover on the multivalve).

If its as it was when it was fitted you should find a 3 pin plug somewhere near the front wiring with yellow, brown and black wires going by mine - this is the connection to the tank solenoid and level sender (from memory it may also be the front solenoid). Try disconnecting the plug and see if you get any change? If it then stays on but fails to switch its most likly a coil gone faulty (easy to fix and reasonably easy to purchase)

broket
New member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#29 Post by broket » Sun May 31, 2015 5:55 pm

Hi Brian_H

As soon as I put the fuses back in the vehicle started. I didn't explain myself very well did I. I was wondering why, if the fuses are supposed to be lpg specific, when they are removed the car stops and when you put them back it runs again.

I will have a grub around for that particular set of wires - I don't have the heart to pull all (piles of it) the gardening equipment out of the back right now.

Brian_H
Intermediate Member
Posts: 1716
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 pm
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#30 Post by Brian_H » Sun May 31, 2015 6:21 pm

Ah. Don't know offhand but as your discovering the factory fit systems are a bit different to the aftermarket ones. The connection to the tank on mine is at the front of the car so you shouldn't need to empty the boot

pjpj
Intermediate Member
Posts: 1315
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:16 am
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#31 Post by pjpj » Sun May 31, 2015 6:39 pm

Another thing, when a car breaks down people lift the bonnet and pull and tug on wiring and connections. Unplug the LPG ECU and plug it back in. It may have drifted apart just that little bit.
Regards

PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE

broket
New member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#32 Post by broket » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:47 am

Thanks for the replies guys :)

Brian_H - I will check the schematic from pjpj and find the right cable and where it goes on this vehicle - sherlock = me ;)

pjpj - first thing I do too. I have been around the houses with the sockets and components more than once - this is what makes this investigation so interesting for me. When (not if lol) I find the misbehaviour it will cut down on time spent by any others following after.

broket
New member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#33 Post by broket » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:50 am

OK - updated.

You could have knocked me down with a feather - the blooming lpg just came on again. I have done nothing all week and this morning, in heavy start-stop traffic, the system just burst into life.

It almost makes me wish it doesn't last so I can carry on trying to find the fault ...

Gilbertd
Advanced Member
Posts: 8372
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:00 am
Location: Peterborough

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#34 Post by Gilbertd » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:56 am

That says to me that it has to be a dodgy electrical connection. That's the only thing that is going to cause something that was completely dead to suddenly wake up again.
96 Saab 900XS, AEB Leo, sold
93 Range Rover 4.2LSE, Lovato LovEco, sold
97 Range Rover 4.0SE, multipoint, sold
98 Ex-Police Range Rover 4.0, AEB Leo, daily motor
96 Range Rover 4.6HSE Ascot, AEB Leo, my spare


Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club.

broket
New member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#35 Post by broket » Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:55 am

Yeah - I did go over everything pretty rigorously though as I have believed from the outset it was an intermittent wiring problem.

kbs
Junior Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#36 Post by kbs » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:26 pm

broket wrote:...soon as I put the fuses back in the vehicle started. I didn't explain myself very well did I. I was wondering why, if the fuses are supposed to be lpg specific, when they are removed the car stops and when you put them back it runs again..
If I pull the fuses on mine, the 'change over box' appears to connect/disconnect the cam sensor.
Best guess is that the LPG system runs a buffer that increases the 'fan out' value for the sensor, when the LPG system is powered up (both not in use and when in use) the direct connection for the cam sensor to the petrol ECU is disabled.

Mines being scrapped as soon as I get around to dropping off at the yard - I've already removed/drained/scrapped the LPG tank (and associated valves) but if there is anything else you might need - just let me know.

This is not an offer to sell parts - I'd only want the cost of posting - and I'd only want to remove parts that are easy to get off. Do you have the Valtek7 type solenoid on a 392 evap? I rebuilt my evap a few months ago and could send you that complete with solenoid? Perhaps you just want a solenoid coil? Might be able to find a couple of valtek filters - I recently did the filter in the pressure sensor housing if you need one of those? Relays from lpg fuse box are possible but may need to wait until the car is at the scrap yard.

Dont fancy a whole car do you?

Mine was a 2005 z18xe engined

broket
New member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#37 Post by broket » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:41 pm

Thanks kbs - that would explain how it gets a ways down the road before chugging to a halt :)

Thanks for offering the car but I already own a 'hole in the road to pour my money into' :)

rich r
Junior Member
Posts: 224
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:48 pm
Location: South end of North Yorkshire

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#38 Post by rich r » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:49 pm

kbs - I could have done with the tank float valve for my old 2004 Vectra DualFuel (assuming it's the same ICOM tank) which I sold to a friend. Ah well.
-
2015 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (electric/petrol)
1991 Mitsubishi Pajero 2.5 LWB (WVO)
2008 Volkswagen Caravelle (Diesel)
(previously 2004 Subaru Outback 3.0Rn auto (LPG))

kbs
Junior Member
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:38 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#39 Post by kbs » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:03 pm

broket wrote:Thanks kbs - that would explain how it gets a ways down the road before chugging to a halt :)

Thanks for offering the car but I already own a 'hole in the road to pour my money into' :)
No problem, I'll get the evap/solinoid/pressure sensor off the car early next week. Once I know when the thing is being scrapped, you can decide if you want the lot in one package or if I should send the relays on later.

Yes, Paypal is fine for the postage - I'll let you know once shipped. Can do Royal Mail or Hermes. RM is more expensive but easier if you're not always at the delivery address.

Whilst I have poured some money into this thing - its really been quite fair. I've added ~120k to the odometer, almost all on LPG, making a good saving each of the >6 years.

Only real breakdown was miles from home when the oil pressure light stayed on. The Oil Level light switch had fallen apart and bits of it were blocking the oil pick up.

Never had one car this long before and other than consumables, all I've bought it are a couple of solenoid coils, reducer diapragm kit, a HT coil and a caliper (must be other parts I've forgetten). Think I was fairly lucky though.

broket
New member
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Re: astra g not switching to lpg

#40 Post by broket » Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:24 pm

I had a Toyota Estima like that - put 80 Ks on it for the price of a windscreen wiper, a thermostat and four tyres over 4 MOTs

My Hermes is more than fine thanks (their depot is just up the street) as they know what to do if we're out :)

May as well make it one package, thanks.

Post Reply