Transit 2.3l LPG issue

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dekhelia
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Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#1 Post by dekhelia »

Hi all, hope someone can help with this. I have a Mk7 Transit, fitted with the Mazda-derived 2.3 16V motor. It runs fine on petrol. It will switch to LPG when it reaches the correct temp, but will only idle; as soon as I press the accelerator, the green dashboard switch light flashes, and the LPG cuts off. The LPG tank is 3/4 full.

It's not a factory install, it was a (I think) local council vehicle that was converted after purchase.

Any pointers as to the problem?
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

Brian_H
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#2 Post by Brian_H »

Solenoid not fully opening, crushed feed pipe or very clogged filters might be the cause. Any idea what ecu is fitted?

dekhelia
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#3 Post by dekhelia »

Hi, thanks for the reply. I'm sorry but I don't know what ECU is fitted. The only thing I can make out as to manufacturer is the 'Made in Italy' on the vapouriser (?) body. This seems to fit with a memory of someone telling me the system was Lando Renzi.

Is there a test, generally, for the solenoid operation? Are they a service item (easy to get at)?
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

Brian_H
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#4 Post by Brian_H »

It sounds to me like the solenoid itself is opening, but possibly not opening fully. Most likely cause of that would be gunged up internals. As for easy to get at, it depends where the bits have been installed (as there isn't a set location for bits beyond where it will fit and do its job).

Landi would be possible, quickest way to get somewhere with it might be to take some photos of the bits you can find, and an underbonnet view and we should be able to advise where you can find the bits. You already know where the vapouriser is, the solenoid will be somewhere on the feed line to it, or possibly directly attached to the vapouriser.

I'm guessing that its flagging a lack of pressure error - it would help if you could actually connect to the ecu and see what exactly is being logged (as it would give you a clear error to go on rather than guessing as to the fault).

Has this only recently started happening, or been a problem for some time, or brought like this?

The other thing that might account for it is if the shutoff valve on the tank has been partially closed, if it has one. Would either be a thumbscrew or a yellow level if its a single hole tank, probabbly won't have one if its a 4 hole tank. Again photos of that might also help if your not sure.

Photos can be uploaded using the full editor and preview button to reply

dekhelia
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#5 Post by dekhelia »

Ok, have found the ECU manufacturer, I think. The word EuroGas is printed on its label along with serial no etc. Here is a photo of the vapouriser (ECU is to the right of the pic). I'm guessing the solenoid is the thing attached to the rhs of the vapouriser?
pic: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bKcEAk ... sp=sharing
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

dekhelia
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#6 Post by dekhelia »

The van was running fine before being put into storage for 2 years. I've just recently brought it home, the plan being to use it this summer for a holiday. Actually, I say 'running fine', but it always had a tendency to stall on LPG when coasting, or at throttle idle.

Is there a diagnostic connector readily available, or are these things specialist-only? These days, we all have pretty comprehensive code readers for mainstream cars.
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

Brian_H
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#7 Post by Brian_H »

If its a normal aftermarket fitted system there will be a diagnostic connector yes. But you need the right lead and software to connect to it. Provided you have a laptop then the only extra cost is the lead. But you need to know which ecu you have and ideally where the diagnostic plug is

To show what I mean, have a look at https://www.lpg-kits.com/Pages/interfaces.htm to see the wide variety available (most of these you'd be unliklely to find anymore, the common ones are the AEB ones, KME/Stag, BRC and Prins for the most part)

Your first step is to locate the ecu - shouldn't be too difficult as all the cabling from the lpg bits will end up back there. Likely its under the bonnet somewhere, though it could possibly be inside the cabin. Once you have found that, the diagnostic plug is likely to be very close to it, on a loose bit of cable hopefully with a blanking cap on it. That could be one of two types if its Landi, either a 4 pin superseal connector or an 8 pin molex one. Once you have those bits of info you should be able to buy a suitable lead.

If its Landi and has the superseal connector, this should be ok > https://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/lpg-kits/ ... g-systems/

Given its been standing, I'd suggest its likely the solenoid at the front end is gunged up is the cause of your issues, though it could also be the reducer/vapouriser itself, in which case you may be able to drain it by getting the van warmed up and disconnecting the outlet of the vapouriser, to allow you to tip out any contents from inside. But your really stabbing in the dark at this point without knowing for sure why its switching back to petrol.

Some of the newer ECU's such as the KME and LPGtech ones also have a mobile app you can use with a suitable bluetooth adaptor, but again you need to know what ecu your dealing with.

It might be worth giving some idea of where you are located, as someone might have a lead close to you if your lucky.

dekhelia
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#8 Post by dekhelia »

Excellent, that's all very helpful information - I'm very grateful for it.

Given what you've said, I'll have a recce and report back. I've downloaded some software from the Landi site, so at least I may be a bit forearmed if I can suss out the right connector.

I'm in York. Would be great to be in contact with any other LPGers, whether it helps this particular cause or not!!
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

Brian_H
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#9 Post by Brian_H »

If you get stuck Simon (LPGC) is an installer in your area and would be able to assist though hes been a bit busy recently.

Software wise most of it can be found on https://projekt-tech.com/diagnostic-programs-pm-23.html (linked from Tinley's website). As long as its not Prins software shouldn't be a major issue.

If you do get to the ecu and aren't sure what it is, take a photo of any labels on it. There are a few different Landi systems out there, requiring different software.

dekhelia
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#10 Post by dekhelia »

Found the connector for LPG ECU diag. It's a 4-pin thing. I'll try and get a snap of the ECU label. I've been thinking that Simon at LPGC may be the best route, given that I know nothing about these systems; but having said that, I'm always keen to find a solution before handing over - if you know what I mean. Thanks for the software link, and all other insights! I'll keep the forum posted.
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

Brian_H
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#11 Post by Brian_H »

If you do go to see Simon, he won't try to hide whats going on with it from you, so would be a learning experience if you wished it to be so. Get totally where your coming from though. The fix above would be valid if your seeing low pressure faults logged, if your seeing something else once you get diagnostics sorted, then hopefully it will give you enough to go on, but if not post back with more info.

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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#12 Post by LPGC »

Is it known where and when was it fitted? Some Landi systems fitted at a formerly well known supplier/installer in North Yorkshire around 5 years ago have firmware which only a specific version of software will talk to and it's difficult to get hold of that specific software now because the installer packed in and Landi isn't very forthcoming with giving people download access to it. I did manage to get the software from said installer before he left the firm but have since misplaced it (probably on one of the hard drives from one of my old broken laptops). I've tried a few times to get that specific version of software again without luck. But hopefully your setup won't need that software version.

Things you can do without software include looking for disconnected vacuum pipes. If a vacuum pipe is connected to the reducer but has got disconnected from the pressure sensor then it would be likely to switch back to petrol when you touch the throttle.

Simon
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dekhelia
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#13 Post by dekhelia »

That's great info, thanks. I'll have a little time this weekend to do a bit more messing about under the bonnet, so I'll check the vacuum pipe situation (if there is one/more than one).

If that doesn't turn up anything, I may just get and fit a solenoid, which appear to be reasonably priced online. If that makes no difference I'll book it in with LPGC if they're not snowed under.

When replacing the solenoid, would I need to disconnect or otherwise make safe the gas supply?
Last edited by dekhelia on Sat Jan 29, 2022 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

dekhelia
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Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:34 am

Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#14 Post by dekhelia »

I don't know where it was fitted. My son bought it at auction in I think Birmingham, a few years ago, with a broken engine (apparently the 2.3l FoMoCo motor, which is actually really a Mazda part, was notorious for chewing up its balancer shaft ...which indeed this one had).
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

Brian_H
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#15 Post by Brian_H »

Gas solenoid wise if you want to play it safe the front one can be drained of gas by shutting off the feed at the rear, and then running until it either switches back to petrol or dies (note that if theres a restriction at the front filter you might have to do this a couple of times to be clear of any significent amount of gas). Provided noone has been messing about with the rear solenoid of course. Or operate the shutoff on the tank if it has one (we haven't see the tank to say on this front).

Otherwise, undo the input to the solenoid (either a plastic pipe thats fairly rigid, or more likely a copper pipe) SLOWLY! and stop when it starts hissing, let the pressure slowly come out and then undo it the rest of the way once its stopped. Obviously do this somewhere well ventailated outside. Main hazard is cold burns from the liquid gas, if you let it out slowly enough you should be fine, put some thick gloves on if you want to play it safe and keep away from where it can drip off.

If it keeps hissing for a long time (more than 5 minutes say) you may find the rear solenoid post internals has been removed, in which case take some photos of the bits you can find there and post here, we can then suggest the best way to deal with it.

Its unliklely the rear post will have gummed up, and without knowing what kind of tank you have its hard to suggest the best way of dealing with it, so more info will be needed there.
If it keeps

dekhelia
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Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#16 Post by dekhelia »

Thanks for this. I still haven't had a chance to look at things - but when I do, I'll take a pic of the underslung tank at the rear (where the spare wheel would have been, I think) and post it here.
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

dekhelia
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Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:34 am

Re: Transit 2.3l LPG issue

#17 Post by dekhelia »

Finally had a chance to update on this! Before booking van in somewhere, I decided to remove the air intake cowling (which pretty well obscures a proper view of the LPG installation under bonnet) - and discovered the reason why it wouldn't run on gas: one injector was unplugged, and another was only just hanging in there. So plugged them back in, and now back to normal. The reason they became detached was because the retaining wire spring clips were absent. I'll have to think of some means of keeping the plugs attached, now. Thanks to all who offered their input!
2010 Transit 2.3 LWB LPG, ex-council from somewhere or other. New engine at 120k miles, balancer shaft deleted. Fitted out with rock n roll bed, cooker, water, solar, 12V and 240V outlets ...and lots of wood

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