Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

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Brian_H
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Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#1 Post by Brian_H » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:09 pm

Has anyone else used one of these kits?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Flash-Lube-F ... 3660400464

They look almost identical to this LPG-Tech kit
https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/lpg-tech-elec ... protector/

The LPG-Tech version appears to make reference to an interface cable to adjust it, As I've discovered the Atiker kit is lacking in anything other than a wiring diagram, which shows connections to the battery, petrol positive and gas solenoid positive. No sign of a way to adjust it, nor any software around to suggest you can do it through an interface cable if at all? It seems to be working as such, but just wondering if anything further was possible with it?

The Flashlube version has a simple pot on the front to adjust the rate and an RPM pickup so easy to understand whats going on there, but this one seems very vague as to what its doing?

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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#2 Post by Fox vehicles » Thu Nov 05, 2020 2:01 pm

I would guess they are the same kit; it is not unusual for companies to offer a service where they put your brand name onto their product. I had a look at the Atiker website and it looks like they don't manufacture them either, so not sure whose kit it is and how many brand names it may have. I would think that the usb lead and software for one will probably work for the other, but I haven’t used these systems so it is a bit of a guess. Bit cheeky that it advertised on eBay as a Flashlube kit, when clearly it isn't :lol:
I have used the electronic Flashlube kits and they are fine, simple to set with the dial on the front as you say, but mostly I use these
https://tinleytech.co.uk/shop/valve-sav ... it-pumped/
I like these as the lube is added to the LPG and added to the engine through the gas injectors, gives a bit of peace of mind that each cylinder is getting oil and it's not just all pooling in a low point :D
These have an usb cable for setup (although it can be done without apparently, never tried)
With the cable and software there are a few ways of setting the flow and it is possible to make it shut down the LPG system when the fluid runs out, if you want it too.
Note that it is listed as a BRC valve saver system; you can also buy a Prins valve saver system which is very similar. They are made by,
https://www.valve-protector.de/
:lol:
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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#3 Post by Brian_H » Thu Nov 05, 2020 3:55 pm

Cheers, Looks like they are fairly uncommon for a good reason (very little info on them). I think even the wiring diagram with the Atiker one looked pretty similar to the lpgtech one, I'd guess its the same thing. LPG tech is vague with what interface cable is actually needed, only place I'd found reference to it was lpg shop and its unclear from there what they actually are trying to say!

I've got it setup through a spider so distribution should be ok - that setup has worked on the focus thats done many more miles on gas and the electronic flashlube system, I'd tried the JLM bottles but have had 2 of them both do the same sort of thing (just stop dispensing when around 1/2 down the bottle) so just don't trust them anymore.

Should have stuck with the proper flashlube one, only reason I'd avoided it was that it seemed to leak out of the cap over time (that said, the JLM one is far worse for that too)

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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#4 Post by LPGC » Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:48 am

If the Atiker lube is even capable of being programmed I expect this is the correct interface cable https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/ccy-usb-lpg-i ... st-junior/ This seems to at least be the correct lead (no.7) for the LPGTech lookalike system.

The software for the LPGTech lube system can be downloaded from https://www.lpgshop.co.uk/content/downl ... 0Setup.exe . Maybe this software will work with the Atiker system but I doubt it.

Got to disagree about lube systems that involve lube fluid flowing through gas injectors.. Seen too many gummed up LPG injectors, lube fluid seems to flow mostly out of the first hole (injector outlet) it reaches (like a wall blokes wee against in a public toilet - it all goes out of the first drain it reaches), lube fluid can roll downhill in pipe between injectors so could potentially reach the vapour filter and reducer (best have the pipe going downhill toward injectors from the point of lube entry), droplets of liquid lube flowing through the jet on an injector effectively partly constrict the jet which means gas flow through the jet is decreased (leaning the cylinder's mixture). The Prins lube system that injects lube into pipes between injectors and spuds seems a better idea but there's not much way of checking the distribution block is doing a proper job of evenly distributing lube, is expensive and some aspects of the design are crazy (like putting a bottle - open end sealed by foil at the bottom - down onto a spike which pierces the foil - and hopefully getting it to seal before lube fluid is lost all over the engine bay).
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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#5 Post by Brian_H » Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:54 pm

Looks like the reference to lead 7 is the numbering WTV uses rather than a reference to their own lpg shop site, which is what threw me at first. I'd found the software you linked above, seems very simple really, how long to open for and how often seems all you can adjust, which would make sense given its got no way to tell any thing further than if the engine is running on gas or petrol or not at all.

Have you ever used the LPG tech version Simon? I assume it has to plug into the ECU, but there only seems to be a single connector on the ecu, and nothing spare on the loom to connect to. Do you just plug the ecu directly into the adaptor on the cable, or is there an additional flylead cable on the loom?

Cheers!

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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#6 Post by Brian_H » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:01 pm

Think I've found the answer - it isn't adjustable by the looks of things.
This manual for the LPG tech version, shows an extra connector for the interface
http://lpgtech.eu/wp-content/uploads/20 ... cja_en.pdf

Mine definitely doesn't have that, but does have an extra ground, which allows you to prime it when first installed, then isolate it to provide normal operation. You do that through the software on the lpg tech version, which doesn't have the same wire. So it looks like the ECU and loom is slightly different between the two, although the rest of it looks the same (bottle and solenoid etc).

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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#7 Post by LPGC » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:16 pm

Brian_H wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:54 pm
Have you ever used the LPG tech version Simon? I assume it has to plug into the ECU, but there only seems to be a single connector on the ecu, and nothing spare on the loom to connect to. Do you just plug the ecu directly into the adaptor on the cable, or is there an additional flylead cable on the loom?

Cheers!
I've never fitted or adjusted one, seem to remember seeing one. If the ECU's socket is a Molex lookalike a programming lead connector wouldn't necessarily need to have the same number of pins as the connector on the main loom (that's used during operation) - a case of unplug the operational loom to plug in the calibration connector, calibrate, then plug the operational loom back in.

I haven't seen the wiring diagram either. There are systems where 'add ons' (perhaps including an electronic lube system) can connect to the main LPG ECU using the calibration interface connector. Even systems where the dashboard switch connects to the ECU this way, so during calibration the switch is obviously disconnected. Perhaps the wiring diagram hasn't been interpreted properly? Electronic lube dosing systems such as electronic Flashlube usually need to have 12v feed from the gas solenoid (lube system turns on only when running on gas) and pulse signal from injectors (to calculate the dosage rate, put more lube in as engine load increases).
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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#8 Post by LPGC » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:31 pm

Having said the above, this wiring diagram for the LPGTech version shows the lube system loom having a normal 4 pin SuperSeal plug, would expect it use the normal KME / Stag wired interface cable.
Image
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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#9 Post by Brian_H » Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:35 pm

LPGC wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:16 pm
I've never fitted or adjusted one, seem to remember seeing one. If the ECU's socket is a Molex lookalike a programming lead connector wouldn't necessarily need to have the same number of pins as the connector on the main loom (that's used during operation) - a case of unplug the operational loom to plug in the calibration connector, calibrate, then plug the operational loom back in.

I haven't seen the wiring diagram either. There are systems where 'add ons' (perhaps including an electronic lube system) can connect to the main LPG ECU using the calibration interface connector. Even systems where the dashboard switch connects to the ECU this way, so during calibration the switch is obviously disconnected. Perhaps the wiring diagram hasn't been interpreted properly? Electronic lube dosing systems such as electronic Flashlube usually need to have 12v feed from the gas solenoid (lube system turns on only when running on gas) and pulse signal from injectors (to calculate the dosage rate, put more lube in as engine load increases).
I'd have expected so on the injector front - thats what I seem to remember the flashlube one having.

The Atiker one is like this - and this is all that was with it, no further info
Atiker lube disp.jpg
Atiker lube disp.jpg (290.34 KiB) Viewed 1716 times
Image

Looks like the lpgtech might be a better item though the flashlube looks to be a better thought out version as it actually has an input for the engine speed, which neither of the other two do.

Guess thats why it was half the price of the flashlube one!

Cheers Simon

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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#10 Post by LPGC » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:21 pm

Brian_H wrote:
Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:35 pm
Guess thats why it was half the price of the flashlube one!
I reckon better off with the Flashlube one too.

Speculating now but the unit on the side of the Atiker and LPGTech ones looks just like a solenoid valve, if that's the case they might rely on engine vacuum to pull lube into the engine with the only function of said solenoid being to close to shut off lube flow, it might not work under turbo boost conditions? The Flashlube version uses a pump and doses according to engine load.
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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#11 Post by Brian_H » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:26 pm

Its described as a valve, but does actually seem to pump when you ground the white wire to prime it (even without engine running the hose gets filled up quite rapidly).

Turbo not a consideration for me, but its obviously the reason you go for the electronic one in most cases. From what I've seen, it should work in that state. But one thats tied to engine speed for dosing would obviously be better, this just seems to do it on a timed basis.

That said, the dose rate appears somewhere around right by usage, maybe a little high if anything on a 4 pot engine that manages at best 30mpg average (and at worst has been down at 6mpg!).

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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#12 Post by LPGC » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:49 pm

Heh, I've just realised (or probably remembered lol) that you're the OP Brian :-) Didn't know you had it in your hands.

If it's a solenoid type setup and capable of self-bleeding, the solenoid must work some type of plunger pump then? In which case it probably would work on a turbo. Might even be a pump, just one that looks like a red solenoid coil. Interestingly the LPGTech diagram doesn't show the white wire - wonder if there's a prime function in software instead.

It seems the electronic Flashlube's (and the other BRC type Mick mentioned) measure the pulse width of injection signals and rpm so does rate is approximate to engine load as opposed to just rpm based. I've got one fitted on one of my vehicles, for similar rpm if I'm pulling the caravan it gets through more lube than if I'm not pulling the caravan, of course it also uses more fuel if towing the caravan.
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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#13 Post by Brian_H » Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:59 pm

I think the button that says venting is probabbly the priming function (Can't see it can be much else really as there isn't much else it has to do!).

Image

Sounds like the better branded types do a bit more than just spit a bit in every so often. I don't know if the Flashlube one turns down the amount injected with the pot on the ecu, or pumps less often as you turn it down, though electronic adjustment is obviously preferable. I prefer the ones that have a level sensor which limits the available options as a lot of the basic ones don't have that option.

Would that be the Elgrand by any chance?

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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#14 Post by LPGC » Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:38 pm

I don't know whether the pot reduces pump output or adjusts the interpretation of PWM signals either but I suppose the end result would be largely the same either way. The setting dial needs to be closer to the 0 for a smaller engine, to 8 for a bigger one, but sometimes more than offsetting that it also depends on how much fuel is injected for a given pulse length, which depends on fuel pressure and injector flow rate. For any dial setting the dosage rate seems to more than double for double pulse length.

Yes, one of them..
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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#15 Post by Brian_H » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:20 pm

Well having run it for a few weeks the good news is it seems to keep dispensing at a sensible rate. The not so good news is that it doesn't tell you when its empty though which you'd expect with an led in the cabin that it would do. Having looked inside the bottle, theres no sign of a level sensor so it clearly can't. Certainly the flashlube version is much more sophisticated and the one I'd recommend!

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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#16 Post by Fox vehicles » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:32 pm

Have a look at the setup instructions for the this type,
https://www.valve-protector.de/18.html
The setup takes into account the hp of the engine, number of cylinders and the injector pulse, so pretty much covers all the bases I think. :)
I tend to use these over the electronic Flashlube kit as it can be used to inject the fluid into the gas feed of the injectors. It has a low level LED and you can (if you wanted) add a relay so that it turns off the LPG when the fluid runs out. Out of interest Prins are now using this system, rebranded of course, after giving up with their expensive leaky kit :wink: They tend to use the multi-output box, so either a 4 or 6 cyl (or 2x 4 for a 8cyl) and 'T' into the injector pipes between the injectors and the inlet manifold, they don’t recommend putting the valve saver through the injectors, I have done quite a few this way though and never had a problem.
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Re: Atiker Electronic Valve saver AYK01

#17 Post by Brian_H » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:29 pm

That does look like a more capable bit of kit, at least the Atiker one seems to dose until the bottle is empty, which the jlm manual vacuum one never did (about 1/3rd of the bottle before it stopped usually). Just need to remember to check the level every couple of weeks now.

Cheers Mick

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