Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

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rafisad
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Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#1 Post by rafisad » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:38 pm

Hello,

Please help.

I have installed LOVATO Sequential LPG kit from one of the local importers. However, I am facing a problem, there is a hesitation on the first acceleration (Ok, in petrol).

I have tried several ways to fix it but failed. Autocalibration can't fix it as well. The mechanic also failed to fix it. The hesitation is too much, very difficult to drive in heavy traffic.

My car is Toyota X Fielder 2006 with 1.5 liter VVTI engine.
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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#2 Post by LPGC » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:18 pm

Local importer doesn't do tech support for DIYers, you and the mechanic don't really know what you're doing?

ginj of 7,65 for pinj of 3.65 says one or more of: calibration is too rich and engine is running rich (at least at idle on LPG), not enough pressure (but Lovato reducer isn't very pressure adjustable), nozzles too small, gas entering manifold in wrong place (manifold nozzle location), injector pipes too long.

The extra injection filtering light shouldn't be on at idle.
No T.gas reading, no gas vapour temp sensor fitted?

3.65ms pinj at idle is higher than I'd expect on a VVTi engine, was the AC turned on?
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rafisad
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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#3 Post by rafisad » Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:42 pm

Honestly, I don't know what I am doing. I am trying to learn. And, I believe the mechanic knows nothing. However, he converts at least 1 vehicle each day and they are running without issues but the exception in my case.

The AC was on. Injector pipe is not long.
I am not sure about the injector location, different people say different things.
In autocalibration, sometimes it says nozzles too small & sometimes ends correctly.
What should be the difference between ginj & pinj?

The problem is I am not getting anyone in my country, who can fix it.

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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#4 Post by Gilbertd » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:50 pm

Cant' help you too much so you'll need to wait for Simon but the difference between pinj and ginj should be between 1.2x and 1.5x, ideally closer to the lower figure. So for your displayed pinj figure of 3.59 (second photo), ginj should be between 4.31 and 5.38 and not 7.61mS. That would explain your nozzles too small errors.
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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#5 Post by Brian_H » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:15 pm

Not long is a very vague way to describe the hoses - are we talking 20cm here or 50cm? Ideally you want them as short as possible, usually sticking under 30cm is the advice given, You also want them to be the same length as far as possible. Equally they want to be as close as you can manage to the petrol injectors position.

Can you get a few decent photos to show where the injectors are fitted, where they connect into the manifold and what injectors you have (with what nozzles fitted to them if appropriate)?

Suggest you map it with the A/C switched off as the load on the engine will be lower at that point, it needs to run in that state else you might have problems when the a/c isn't on (or the system isn't engaged etc - which it should compensate for as the petrol times would be higher in that state anyway)

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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#6 Post by LPGC » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:49 pm

Some pics would certainly help but there will be at least a few problems with the calibration besides any fitting issues we might see in pics.
You'll never get good results if the basic install isn't good (reason for the pics). Do post pics but things you might try now in calibration are: unticking the 'extra injection cutting' and 'injection sequence manual acquisition' tick boxes, change 'threshold extra injection' to 1.1ms, run the engine on petrol and click on 'injection sequence acquisition' (we don't know how it's wired up), move the 'leaning in acceleration' slider all the way to the right (+), run autocal again.
We don't know if the 7.odd ms of LPG injector duration is providing correct fuelling but manifold pressure of .43 bar would suggest it isn't (particularly if AC is turned off), so we don't yet know if nozzles/pressure are anything like correct but it's looking like they're unlikely to be correct. The shape of the map looks all wrong (how the numbers change along going both across and down).
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rafisad
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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#7 Post by rafisad » Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:24 pm

Hi,

I will change the settings you mentioned tomorrow and will let you know the result.

Today, I tried to increase the gas pressure by moving the screw on the gas kit, but, it didn't work. The pressure doesn't increase in any way.

The nozzle size is 1.8mm.

Please have a look at the pictures.
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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#8 Post by LPGC » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:57 am

You still have the extra injection box ticked (which I said untick)..

Manifold nozzles aren't in a ridiculous place but could do with seeing a few pics of the manifold nozzle area without the engine cover on...

There's also 'routing' to check (matching gas injector outputs to petrol injector wiring breaks). There might be a software screen (Advanced/System Test) that allows you to switch individual cylinders back to petrol... If you can switch each cylinder back to petrol in turn without causing the engine to run very much more poorly routing will be correct, if not you may need to sort a routing problem. Some of the Toyota engines, though just inline 4 cylinders, are managed as 2 banks of 2 cylinders. Pic of the exhaust manifold (and/or live data readings from the vehicle OBD port using an OBD scanner) would tell us if the engine is managed as 2 banks or the more usual 1 bank. Routing issues are more likely to cause bigger problems if the engine is managed as 2 banks. As a test you could try setting number of banks in software to 2 (usually in the Settings screen) - then instead of just 1 reading for petrol injection duration and 1 number for gas injector duration in software there'll be 2 of each reading, both petrol injector readings should almost agree and both gas injector readings should almost agree.

Petrol injector duration and manifold pressure are closer to what I'd expect for this engine at warm idle with AC turned off.

Your map (numbers in the table) is all over the place. Could have done with some better injectors for this engine but still you should be able to get better results than you're getting... though you'll probably have to fit slightly bigger nozzles in the injectors to realise better results. You have 1.8mm nozzles, try 2.3mm nozzles.
rafisad wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 5:42 pm
And, I believe the mechanic knows nothing. However, he converts at least 1 vehicle each day and they are running without issues but the exception in my case.
There's no way he usually gets good results converting a vehicle per day if he doesn't know more than he seems to know lol.
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rafisad
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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#9 Post by rafisad » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:08 am

Found the problem. The injector sequence was in opposite direction. Now, its running fine. :P

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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#10 Post by LPGC » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:00 pm

rafisad wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:08 am
Found the problem. The injector sequence was in opposite direction. Now, its running fine. :P
That's a routing problem then ;-)

Your map will still be wrong though unless you've changed it a lot since the pics.
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rafisad
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Re: Need Help - Hesitation on First Move

#11 Post by rafisad » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:20 am

Yes its wrong. Can you show me any sample map? How it should look?

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