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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:39 am 
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Hi All,
Wondering if anyone can advise me before I start spending silly money... :)

I have a 2001 Astra with the GSI LPG system. Vehicle has just done 100,000 miles and the engine is very sweet.
However, I have 2 seperate issues that may or may not be realated:

1. For the last 12 months we have been getting the dreaded ckeck engine light coming on. I read the code off and it was 'injector number 2'. As the vehicle was running perfectly on petrol I decided to simply ignore it. Initially the light would just come on occasionally; but it now is on constantly and only goes off if I run the vehicle on petrol for a day or so. The light will then come back on as the vehicle switches over to LPG. The vehicle is still running fine on petrol so I'm reluctant to start replacing injectors??

2. Secondly (and more seriously) the vehicle has started to run a bit sick on LPG (in the last 3-4 months). When the vehicle first switches over to LPG it sounds to me like she is only running on 3 cylinders. As the engine warms up this improves and she drives fine. Any ideas on the likely cause? Am I looking at a new set of LPG injectors :( or is there another likely cause?

Really appreciate any advice!!

Thanks,
Steve


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:12 pm 
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SteveGoddard14 wrote:
I read the code off and it was 'injector number 2'.

I would guess at a bad joint in the emulator module

SteveGoddard14 wrote:
When the vehicle first switches over to LPG it sounds to me like she is only running on 3 cylinders. As the engine warms up this improves and she drives fine. Any ideas on the likely cause? Am I looking at a new set of LPG injectors :(

Could be. See other threads about cleaning, to try and shift gumminess. I wouldn't give it fifty-fifty chances of working though.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:42 am 
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Thanks for the reply - the emulator issue sounds plausable. Any advice on fixing replacing?

I'll lookup cleaning the injectors - worth a shot considering the eye-watering cost of a new set!

Thanks again,
Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Hi All,
I've ordered up a few bits ready to tackle this issue. I've get a new splitter/filter, a new set of iridium plugs and a new set of injector seals.

I've read lots of old posts about cleaning the GSI injectors. Could someone give me a little more info on this? Especially how to 'pulse' the injectors whilst they are soaking in carb cleaner.

Also, any advice on their removal? CAn it be done from underneath the vehicle or best to pull things apart from on top?

All advice graetly appreciated!

Thanks,
Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:01 am 
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Just a quick update on this an another plea for help :( :? ...

1. Gave the vehicle a full (petrol) service. New oil, filters, plugs (NGK twin-electrode). No change to running.
2. Installed a new set of Denso Iridium plugs. No change.
3. Installed new LPG splitter and filter (old one was pretty manky when I pulled it apart). No change.
4. Stripped it all down and pulled out the LPG injectors. Soaked them for 48 hrs in a couple of cans of carb cleaner. Reassembled. It now refuses to run on LPG at all. The vehicle tries to swap and then stalls. If driving, the vehicle tries to swap over - losing all power and then swapping back to petrol after 4-5 seconds. I thought it must simply be a metter of getting some gas through but after repeated attempts I have given up. Running perfectly on petrol.

Before pulling out the injectors I read all the (petrol) ECU codes off:0202/3/4, 0302, 0300 - all injector or misfire errors. I'm pretty sure that these are all caused by the 'bugs' with the LPG systems. I have been running on petrol for a couple of days now and the EML went out after a few miles - it only comes on if I try to switch to LPG.

After reading as many posts on the subject I could find, I tried to read the LPG codes but failed. I took a feed from the grey wire in the 'LPG relay / fuse box' to a bulb and then to earth. I tried this with engine and igniition on and off but failed to get a single flash. Does this mean there are no fault codes stored or an I doing something wrong?

With the injectors - have I knackered them completely? Anything more I can try before I shell out on a new set of injectors? :shock:

I'd really appreciate any advice anyone can give - particularly on reading the LPG fault codes.

Many thanks,
Steve


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:18 pm 
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SteveGoddard14 wrote:
After reading as many posts on the subject I could find, I tried to read the LPG codes but failed. I took a feed from the grey wire in the 'LPG relay / fuse box' to a bulb and then to earth. I tried this with engine and igniition on and off but failed to get a single flash. Does this mean there are no fault codes stored or an I doing something wrong?

Doing something wrong. Just earth the grey wire, no bulb, turn the ignition on and look at the handy light already provided in the LPG switch.
There are no flash codes for "sticky injectors" so it's not likely to help much.

SteveGoddard14 wrote:
With the injectors - have I knackered them completely?

Maybe. Soaking sticky stuff in solvent is as likely to make it stickier and migrate to other places, as it is to clean it away. They might get better if you keep trying, or repeat the soak treatment.
Be very sure you have seated and clipped the injectors back in their cups properly, and the sealing o-rings are in good shape.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:23 am 
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You also say you replaced the filter, if it is the type with the removable paper insert then they have been known to collapse and block the filter completely. Check for gas going out.

p0202 is an injector circuit malfunction. Reset and re-read the codes. Swap the injectors around and reset the codes, see if the fault follows the injector. If it doesn't it could well be the emulator or at least the solder joints on the emulator board.

Are you definitely using the correct grey wire? See below to be sure. You should get a 1 - 2.

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To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:00 am 
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Thanks rossko and pjpj. I think I have the right grey wire - but didn't realise I simply earthed it and looked at the internal switch light. I'll try again...

The splitter / filter is a sealed unit. I took the old one apart by slitting it with a small angle grinder. It's very hard to check gas is coming through with the engine running as the filter (and especially the injectors) are very very hard to get to - to get to the injectors I had to remove the throttle body and plenum chamber with all the associated wiring and plumbing.

I'll get the codes off the LPG ECU and post them before I do anything else.

Thanks again for your help and advice!

Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:59 pm 
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An update...

Been a busy few days so have not tried the vehicle on LPG since the last session.
Finally got round to reading the LPG codes off today:

Put the vehicle onto LPG and switched on the ignition. Got code 12 - all fine.

Started the vehicle and it switched to LPG (amazingly the vehicle actually ran on LPG - the injectors must have dried out! - but still running sick) got code 12 then 32 (repeated indefinately so if was certainly 32).

Code 32 is not listed on the error code sheet - anyone any ideas?

Thanks again for all the help!

Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:55 pm 
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I dont know if this is of any use to you but found this http://www.maxperience.com/nl/koltec-ne ... i-problems

on a slightly older system code 32is wrong pressure or a bad pressure sensor. they refer to a pressure sensor on the splitter or something, dont know if this will help you but hope it does :)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:16 am
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Location: Yorkshire
Eeeuurghh, code 32. Mmmm.

The official description is:
Petrol injector off short to ground or open. This would normally appear if the vehicle has run out of LPG or the LPG ECU has seen a concern and it has changed it back to petrol. i.e incorrect fuelling.

However, also read the following descriptions written up as issues have been found and linked to code 32. You can see the connection:
Code 32 is gas pressure to low or high.
It even can be the pressure sensor is defect.
This pressure sensor is on the side of the distributor.
It has a 3-pole connector, and on the pole in the middle must be a voltage around 2.5 volts (between 2 and 3 volts) when the car is idling.
On the left must be 5 volts, and the right pole has to have a voltage of 0 volts.(ground)

Code 32 Fuel pump relay - voltage high Also in combination with code P0230 Fuel Pump Relay Open Circuit C-07 This was found to be the bottom relay on the 8V (5 pin hellas changeover relay) of the fuse box. I would assume this to be the injector changeover relay.

Have fun.

It could be you have got this code due to the injectors being gummed up from an unsuccessful clean. Different people have used WD40, Carb. cleaner and Plusgas successfully to clean various LPG parts.

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PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Thanks pjpj,
Point 1 is possible - we are back to the emulator module I guess.
Point 2 is possible I guess - vehicle has a full tank of gas. You mention the 3 pin plug on the side of the distributor - on my GSI system there are no electrical connections to the splitter / distributor. Is it elsewhere on a GSI?

Is it possible to buy a new emulator module? Any thoughts on testing or having them repaired.
I wonder if. Need to take it to someone who has a pile of spares they can work through swapping bit out etc.

Any advice?

Thanks again,
Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:23 pm 
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I would pay more attention to the OBD codes over the GSI ones .. has P020x or any others resurfaced?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Most Vauxhall systems in the UK didn't have a pressure sensor fitted.

You could try Autogas2000

Depends on where you are in the country, you could try Edward of mobile automotives and LPG

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PJPJ



To help identify your Vauxhall LPG model, go HERE


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Engine ECU light is back on - codes are as before: 0202/3/4.

I'm increasingly thinking it's the emulator.

Thanks for your suggestion PJPJ - Telford is not too far away - time to hand it over to the experts... I'll give Edward a call on Monday.

Steve


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:49 pm 
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SteveGoddard14 wrote:
codes are as before: 0202/3/4.
I'm increasingly thinking it's the emulator.

Yup.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:23 pm 
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rossko wrote:
SteveGoddard14 wrote:
codes are as before: 0202/3/4.
I'm increasingly thinking it's the emulator.

Yup.

Hi everyone. As you can see im a LPG virgin.
I bought my LPG on the cheap with this very problem that is listed here.
I have my own code reader & the same faults keep popping up on petrol.
It kangeroos everywhere until your up to about 40mph then everything seems fine.
In reverse it is sweet as a nut!!
Codes P0202/3/4 injector circuit/ open cylinder 2/3/4
So I changed the injectors. No joy & same codes.
I since then joined this forum & see PJPJ & Rossko seem pretty clued up.
So I changed the emulator, 4 pin & 10 pin & £75. I plugged the new emulator in & it didnt even want to start.
I switched emulators back to my old one it started on the button. I cleared the codes & switched emulators back to the new 1
No joy, my mrs is good with printed circuit boards & noticed that the diodes in the new 1 may be upside down looking at the silver strip at the top
I took it back thinking I have purchased a faulty new part. They said the same thing with the diodes.
3 days later the exchanged part arrives. Guess what? Same thing. Not starting, same codes & diodes maybe upside down.
As soon as I plug my old 1 in it fires up, runs really nice until you pull away on petrol & kangeroos
Sometimes the EML flashes on gas. Seems to run a little bit better on gas but the airbox pops & seems a bit restricted
Im not too worried about gas at the minute as that might sort out once I cure the petrol problem 1st
Could I really have purchased another faulty emulator? Garage says no chance & they want £68 an hour labour maybe just to tell me it is another faulty emulator. Im running the necam koltec system, just been made redundant but managing to sell part worn tyres to bring in some money but really need to get the van running. Running around dropping off & fitting tyres in my opel manta B is just killing it the poor girl
Obviously any help is much appreciated as im losing sleep at night lol
Is there any way of testing the emulator with a multimeter?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Sounds more like the wrong part supplied. Necam systems evolved over the years, and a number of major and minor variants can be found on Vauxhalls. Really sure the plug is going on the right way round?

I'm not sure that metering an unconnected emulator reveals much; but when in-circuit and in petrol mode, it should be simply passing petrol injector pulses in one wire and out another for each petrol injector (so four wire pairs, plus ground and a command wire ... that'll be the ten pin connector.). So the test is to look for pulses arriving at petrol injectors. Pretty obviously if its no-start then they won't be.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:52 am 
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This autotek place near knebworth in Herts just got this book out & inside was 3 different variations of the emulator. He said the only difference is the number of plug pins. I just think its funny that the 1st part had to be faulty & now the 2nd new part isn't. Even though its doing the same thing as the 1st!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:01 pm 
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Does the emulator need to be coded to the ecu(s)? On the tech 2 machine maybe? The plug end attached to the loom has 1 blank pin on the 10 pin plug. 2nd from the left looking down at it, wires coming in from the top.
Is my mrs right about the diodes upside down with the silver strip? Will check with multimeter tomorrow


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